This thread has been saved from the TTI board. It no longer exists on that board because the administrator said it became corrupted and they had to delete it.

 

rgrunt

unregistered posted 09 January 2001 11:03

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I appologize,

I meant to say that time was accelerated and the energy per unit volume lower at our respective position as a result of the increased density of air as a result of increased humidity. I donnot mean to say that time actually slows down but sequence of events are accelerated outside the reqion of higher humidity with respect to those events within the region of higher humidity as a result of the area of higher humidity having a lower energy density then the region of lower humidity. This is indeed counter intuitive and requires a unique perspective of the model to totally understand. Most scientist would agree that higher energy densities occupy masses of higher density. This is because the masses of higher density will have atoms with more electrons and protons enabling higher angles of energy deflection within the mass prolonging the period of time required for the free propagation energies to permiate through the solid medium. When I speak of eneries I am refering to the electro-magnetic spectrum. I would like to appologize for butchering the english language in my last two postings, but I was on a timer and did not have time to hit the ‘spell check’ button. In short, I really do wander if there is a sort of time dialation within the atmosphere caused by the fluctuating levels of temperature and humidity. Can anyone coment? I was also realizing that by compressing energy to a smaller volume of space that space would likewise expand taking on lesser density even without having to stretch at all. This would mean that the total volume density of a volume of space is defined mathematically as S=1/e^2 where S is the density of space and e is the density of energy. (a side note to Plight: this is part of the mathematical model for the device in that as the radius of the magnetic field decreases to zero at 180 degrees torque: the energy density of the field increases to infinity as the space-time density decreases to zero. Beyond 180 degrees torque the energy density of space space-time aquires a negative density according to the equation S=1/e^2 where e^2 rises above infinity(infinity not being true infinity but a convenient label for the unknown limit value of e^2.)and the corresponding S value takes on a negative value.

 

sincerely,

 

Edwin G. Schasteen

 

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TimeTravelActivist

Member posted 09 January 2001 11:19

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It sounds more like your backing out TT_0.

Why not answer my posts directly and on the same week as I posted them?

 

You sound fearful…

 

You say you cannot disclose information that may threaten to change people in this worldline personally. Though you have no idea how much you have changed people already with your big mouth.

 

Let me ask you something… Let’s assume for a minute that you are a Time Traveler. Tell me, what is the policy when encountering an unknown variable?

 

You came into this discussion board for reasons that only you would know. To accomplish something that you thought would benefit us? Or to relinquish some make believe fantasy you had?

 

Who knows…?

 

But hey, don’t get me wrong, I used to play Cops and Robbers too. Super heros are cool . But when you came here, you didn’t come here as a call to save humanity… did you? No, there was something else wasn’t there?

 

Well, it sounds to me that your stay here is numbered. I can only imagine what peril this will bring upon you once you get back.

 

I can only say, thanks. You’ve restored my will to keep up my fight to stop people like you messing up the TimeLine.

 

And oh, that unknown variable, it’s me. You didn’t plan on encountering resistance. Especially a TimeTravelActivist. Hey this sounds more like something that would happen at the end of a Scobby Do cartoon . “You rotton kids…”

 

I suggest you don’t underestimate the past and think you can waltz in here assuming nothing can go wrong. You may be the Traveler, but I’m a native to this land. Take a lesson from history, and just respect people’s domain.

 

That’s assuming that you are a Time Traveler. But personally I think your just playing into people’s fascination with TimeTravel. Why else would you be here, in a TimeTravel discussion Forum, claiming to be a TimeTraveler? You tell people what they want to hear, of course there going to believe you. You only keep them guessing and their fantasy going.

 

I gotta go, but you just think about doing that again in another message board, you can expect the same results. Someone out there, is a TimeTravelActivist just like me, ready to speak out. Remember that…

 

-Javier C.

 

[This message has been edited by TimeTravelActivist (edited 09 January 2001).]

 

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TimeTravel_0

unregistered posted 09 January 2001 12:24

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To: TimeTravelActivist

I apologize for being unable to respond faster. I looked back and couldn’t find any questions but I may be mistaken.

 

I also see that you seem to have a great deal of anger directed at me. If you knew where I was and how to get the distortion unit, what would you do? What judgment and punishment should be passed upon me?

 

On this and many other discussion boards are people who are genuinely interested in and hoping to experience or discover time travel. What punishment would you apply to them if the succeed? I see that you too have had time travel experience. What punishment do you deserve?

 

When time travel was discovered, there were many people who were against its development. However, once the true nature of time was realized, the resistance faded. Even if one worldline was able to ban, kill and stop all time travel, it will continue on another.

 

However, the corollary is also true. Take heart, on some worldline, you have succeeded and all time travelers are dead by the hand of your followers and thinking or talking about it is a crime.

 

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TimeTravel_0

unregistered posted 09 January 2001 12:25

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To: TimeTravelActivist

I apologize for being unable to respond faster. I looked back and couldn’t find any questions but I may be mistaken.

 

I also see that you seem to have a great deal of anger directed at me. If you knew where I was and how to get the distortion unit, what would you do? What judgment and punishment should be passed upon me?

 

On this and many other discussion boards are people who are genuinely interested in and hoping to experience or discover time travel. What punishment would you apply to them if the succeed? I see that you too have had time travel experience. What punishment do you deserve?

 

When time travel was discovered, there were many people who were against its development. However, once the true nature of time was realized, the resistance faded. Even if one worldline was able to ban, kill and stop all time travel, it will continue on another.

 

However, the corollary is also true. Take heart, on some worldline, you have succeeded and all time travelers are dead by the hand of your followers and thinking or talking about it is a crime.

 

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TimeTravelActivist

Member posted 09 January 2001 15:47

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TT_0,

You still didn’t answer my questions. Instead you went off the subject, and attempted to blame me for something I have no control over.

 

Let’s set the record straight here. If TimeTravel is used wisely, ethically, and with intentions that don’t allow for an advantage in which ever side is using it. Then I am fine with it.

 

But, if it is used to go back and change events in favor of a world governmets hidden agenda, then yes I would like them to be punished. How would you like to be exploited? Who likes being used…?

 

So in retro-pects, I sense you have anger in me, for having morals and a sense of ethics on this issue of Time Travel. I don’t want this ability to be used by eager selfish people who want to play God with life.

 

Excuse me, but I may be a bit old fashion, but traditions and ways of life are things to hold on to. Sure, advancement of the human race is a good ideal to have as well, but not through the means of Time Travel.

 

So in conclusion, I still await your answers to my questions. What do you have to lose that you haven’t already messed up already.

 

I mean no disrespect, but you don’t seem to have the wisdom that I would expect someone from an advanced future would have. Your ideals are to liberal, much like in the 70’s where things were all about Sex, drugs and free love. Nasty…

 

No, The worldline you described sounds defeated, desperate, will accept everything new without question.

 

You sound the same exact way. Reading over your last post I couldn’t help but feel that. If you are an example of what people in the future feel about life, if you per-se are like a representative of that TimeLine. I’ll tell you what, that TimeLine, that world sucks.

 

That’s all for now, I gotta get back to work.

 

Sincerely,

Javier C.

 

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pamela

Member posted 09 January 2001 19:45

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Hi everybody. Im back.

getting use to my new computer system.

I was going to post something here and reference it to a previous post but for some reason those two postings have disappeared and I have been over and over pages 5,6,7,and 8 and cannot find it at all.

 

It was a posting by TTO replying to ,I believe ,Trott. he made a cryptic message to him asking him if he ever heard the “Princeton string quartet play.” and trott responded back that he knew who the scientists were in the Princeton string quartet. I cannot find these two interesting postings at all. Does anyone know where they are? The only one that can delete postings completely are the moderators.MOP,DYMENZION did you delete them? Trott and TTO are not even registered to edit their postings.

My question is WHAT HAPPENED TO THOSE POSTINGS???????????????????????????????

 

Anyway I cannot refer back to them now so I will just tell you one of CERN’S employees has recommended to me to read “QED” the strange theory of light and matter. by Richard P. Feynman. I was hoping it was not a big book when I got the book, at the top of it, in purple and white were these words:

 

PRINCETON SCIENCE LIBRARY

 

(Princeton, New Jersey

Princeton University press)

 

anyway I am curious about the missing postings. TTO take a look back…do you know what happened to it? if so write me.maybe I am just overlooking it.although I checked over those pages 4 times!

thanks.

pamela

 

[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 16 January 2001).]

 

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Time02112

Member posted 09 January 2001 22:37

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I too have made referrence to this (QED) Book, matter of fact I just lent it out of the TAP-TEN Library to Gary Schasteen on his last visit to my house!

I am suprised that this was overlooked?

Oh well, I am also a very talented musician.

 

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pamela

Member posted 10 January 2001 12:03

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I found it, it was in the parallel universe thread. I knew i had read it.

TTO:

“You’re a physics student, have you ever heard the Princeton String Quartet play?”

 

TROTT:

“Mr. TT_0,

I am familiar with the Princeton String Quartet. They are physicist who are working on string theory at the Advanced Institute of Physics at Princeton University in New Jersey.”

 

[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 10 January 2001).]

 

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TimeTravel_0

unregistered posted 10 January 2001 01:13

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E(8) x E(8)?

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rgrunt

unregistered posted 10 January 2001 15:27

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(E8)x(E8)=? S=1/E^2

E^2*64,

E^2=1/64

S=1/64

S^1/2=((1/3)/8))

1=.999…n

1^1/2=.333…n,1 and -1.

If E is energy density and S is Space-time fabric density.

 

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Trott

Member posted 10 January 2001 21:08

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E(8)x E(8) = SuperGravity

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Trott

Member posted 10 January 2001 21:14

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Mr. TT_0,

You mentioned a divergence from time lines. How is it possible to measure such a divergence? I would assume that it would be impossible to calculate how causes of one single event would propagte into the future. Does not chaos theory make such determinations impossible? Even if I gave you the exact position and velocity of all objects in the universe (which is impossible(I can not even give you the exact position and velocity of a single object due to the Heisenberg Uncertainity Principle)) you could not tell me what the future holds. Of course this results from the fact that the objects do not represent individual closed systems but in fact can interact.

 

P.S.

You said 6 curled up dimensions. The current theory suggests that there should be at least 7 curled up dimensions. It was discovered by Ed Witten that if you added an additional dimension that the 5 slightly different versions of string theory would combine into a single theory, which is often called M-theory.

 

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TimeTravel_0

unregistered posted 10 January 2001 23:10

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((You mentioned a divergence from time lines. How is it possible to measure such a divergence?))

The measurement for worldline divergence is an observation variable isolated to the distortion unit. An effective analogy would be a “gravity radar”. The unit’s sensors take a “snapshot” of the local gravity around the unit before a flight. During travel, this baseline is periodically checked to make sure there are no major changes in the environment that would cause a catastrophic mass failure (brick wall appearing from nowhere). The percentage of VGL divergence from one worldline to another is a calculated guess by the three computers that control the unit based on its starting point. It is useless in describing characteristics of individual worldlines.

 

There is a bit of folklore about the first distortion driver who reaches a destination with a zero divergence. This would mean they had traveled on a spacelike trip to their own worldline of origin. This paradox is quite possible although highly unlikely. I wonder if anyone out there can take current string theory and make that one work on paper?

 

((You said 6 curled up dimensions. The current theory suggests that there should be at least 7 curled up dimensions.))

 

I may be mistaken but I thought it was pretty well established now that (N -10) was on track.

 

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TimeMaster 1a

Member posted 11 January 2001 02:46

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What is a WORLDLINE?

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DaViper

unregistered posted 11 January 2001 03:58

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Direct quote from the Home Page of this Board:

“The Time Travel Institute, although entirely fictional, still respects your privacy.”

 

(Smile)

 

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TimeTravelActivist

Member posted 11 January 2001 05:03

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TT_0,

I take it you have no further comments or intentions of answering my last post?

 

Considering what answering may undermine, I can respect you sudden silence.

 

Anymore dialogue between you and me and I could very well end up discrediting your claims of being a Time Traveler.

 

Or on the other hand, may very well end up supporting my point about Time Travelers intentions.

 

Either way, if you wish to have a real dialogue, and meet my challenge, I still await your answer. In addition, don’t answer what and when is convenient for you. There have been a few past posts requesting that you supply answers to. And you have only come up with what seems to be something that is just convenient enough for someone to quickly study in a book and post as your own knowledge.

 

So enough stalling…

 

Have a nice day,

 

Javier C.

 

P.S. Here’s another one you can try answering for me . I been meaning to ask you, what is your fascination with posting “kill” as your futures means of punishment? This is the 2nd time you’d mentioned it. Don’t you have a criminal justice system in the future anymore? Or is “killing” just your thing?

 

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TimeTravel_0

unregistered posted 11 January 2001 09:04

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I must admit TTA, you have succeeded in confusing me. The more I read your postings, the more I question my understanding and local use of social interaction, courtesy and logic. However, I also believe that all viewpoints have some inherent value even if it’s not apparent.

((I take it you have no further comments or intentions of answering my last post?))

 

I took a look at your last posting and didn’t see any questions. However, I now realize that I may be mistaken in assuming much of what you wrote was rhetorical. In may be helpful if you add some indication that you are asking a question you wish someone to comment on.

 

((However, there is one thing I would like to know. TimeTravel_0 if in fact you have been to the future, what happens to JCS- ME =)? Am I deeply involved in this Time Travel project as well? What of the resistance?))

 

This is the only question I found from your postings that you could be referring to. Again, I have no knowledge of you in any possible future nor would I comment on it if I did. As far as the photograph of me in a uniform, I’m not sure what that would prove even if I had one.

 

((Anymore dialogue between you and me and I could very well end up discrediting your claims of being a Time Traveler.))

 

I do not seek credit for anything. The most I hope for (for the most part) is to be at least interesting and engaging.

 

((Either way, if you wish to have a real dialogue, and meet my challenge, I still await your answer.))

 

Perhaps I was unclear before. I did provide the web link earlier that does have a chat room set up for time travel. My schedule is a bit more flexible right now at least for the next week or so. Please take a look and let me know when you will be there (open to anyone of course). Since there really is nothing to be gained or lost, I look at this not as a challenge but more of an opportunity to get to know everyone better.

 

((In addition, don’t answer what and when is convenient for you. There have been a few past posts requesting that you supply answers to. And you have only come up with what seems to be something that is just convenient enough for someone to quickly study in a book and post as your own knowledge.))

 

I’m not sure what you mean by that. In earlier postings, I have stated that I’m trying to avoid repeating myself and frankly there are some items that are just over my head or that I have no knowledge of. It is curious that you feel knowledge can be something owned or somehow that becomes less worthwhile if it’s passed on.

 

((P.S. Here’s another one you can try answering for me . I been meaning to ask you, what is your fascination with posting “kill” as your futures means of punishment? This is the 2nd time you’d mentioned it. Don’t you have a criminal justice system in the future anymore? Or is “killing” just your thing?))

 

Perhaps you could take the dialogue in question and post it with your question. However, if I understand you, you’re asking about death on my worldline. Yes, it is more a part of our lives than it is yours (at least for now) and capitol punishment is a reality.

 

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Fast

Member posted 11 January 2001 10:41

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TT_0,

why would you travel back to our time looking for a UNIX Bug Fix when the people in your time could simply try to fix it themselves??

 

what will you be using UNIX for,BTW?

 

In the future,are the overall temperatures cooler or hotter than they are here and now?

 

in an earlier post,you said Skeptisism isnt a bad thing,but you seem to back down to TTA and answer few if any of his questions..Why?

 

FastWalker2

 

[This message has been edited by Fast (edited 11 January 2001).]

 

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TimeTravelActivist

Member posted 11 January 2001 11:35

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Uhh ya =)… Good point there.

Gotta get to work, more later.

 

-Javier C.

 

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TimeTravel_0

unregistered posted 11 January 2001 11:49

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I don’t believe I ever said I came back looking for a UNIX bug fix. I came back for a computer system. Don’t you find UNIX usefull now?

Temprature is about the same although there were anomalies after the war.

 

Fast… if you are able to translate exactly what the questions are, I would be happy to try and answer.

 

Just curious….what does everyone think of “IT”? (ginger)

 

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Buzz

unregistered posted 11 January 2001 11:55

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I have some questions for Time traveler_0,

I see you take things from this world to bring back to your own world. books, computers what have ya. as well as probably the other TT do as well.

Do you pay for those items? or do you just “steal” them?

what do you pay with if you pay?

If you dont pay how is it justified to steal from another world?

could not a TT (time traveler)basically take whatever they wanted from any time?

for example: They would have knowledge of when a shipment of gold was being transported by truck and they could go in and attack the truck and steal all the gold. which would be good for any country or time and do what ever he wanted with it.

They could set themselves up as a King in ancient Egypt and rule the world at the time.

They will have all the power and all the money they could ever want.on this world as well as on others.

what stops you from doing this as well?

Are they careful who they pick to time travel? do you have to take psychological tests before you are chosen?

what attributes should a time traveler have in your opinion?

What are some things they look for when they chose someone for a mission?

If they pick a bad seed by mistake and send them time traveling and that person does harm is there anyway they can go after that person? I am curious about all of this.

thankyou in advance for answering my questions.

 

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Trott

Member posted 11 January 2001 12:54

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Interesting, if you are from the future, you could tell us just exactly what IT is. Since no one will know for sure until probably 2002 according to news reports. The picture that I saw on ABCNEWs.com of what they thing IT is did not seem to impressive.

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TimeMaster 1a

Member posted 11 January 2001 13:45

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TimeTravel_0:

Since you can travel from Worldline to Worldline perhaps you can tell me what a worldline is?

 

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Fast

Member posted 11 January 2001 14:19

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TT_0,

there was only one question and you answered it.

if one looks over the temperature charts from the past back to when they first started making them,there is a pattern.

every hundred years or so there is a 10 year period of higher and lower than normal temperatures.after these 10 years,the temperature levels out.

 

I read somewhere we were at the end of those 10 years,so wouldnt that mean that in your time the temperatures would be not as extreme?

 

also,what exactly is IT?

 

FastWalker2

 

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TimeTravelActivist

Member posted 11 January 2001 15:29

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Buzz,

It’s no use, he won’t answer your question about Time Travelers ethics. Cause he’s got none.

 

I tried having him to comment on it, yet he hasn’t.

 

After all, he comes from a world where there is capital punishment. The ends justify the means for Time Travelers, as I always been saying.

 

-J.C.

 

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TimeTravelActivist

Member posted 11 January 2001 15:31

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Buzz,

It’s no use, he won’t answer your question about Time Travelers ethics. Cause he’s got none.

 

I tried having him to comment on it, yet he hasn’t.

 

After all, he comes from a world where there is capital punishment. The ends justify the means for Time Travelers, as I always been saying.

 

-J.C.

 

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Fast

Member posted 11 January 2001 16:51

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didnt TT_0 say in a previous post that we were looked down on by future generations,

if he is from a “parellel timeline”,how would he know this??

perhaps TT_0 really is a fraud?

 

FastWalker2

 

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Fast

Member posted 11 January 2001 16:56

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i got an error from the board and tried to resubmit the message,and it popped up in repeat..

FastWalker2

 

[This message has been edited by Fast (edited 11 January 2001).]

 

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Fast

Member posted 11 January 2001 16:57

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another repeat post..

 

[This message has been edited by Fast (edited 11 January 2001).]

 

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rgrunt

unregistered posted 11 January 2001 19:38

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I was considering all the pictures that were submitted of UFO’S on all the different TV programs. It seems that very few people are likely to believe in something that is far more believable then time travel. Not that I am a skeptic of time travel for if I were I would not be trying to provide the method and energy source to enable that and other feats. But most would only beleive in UFO’s if one were to land in their back yard and even then most would question their own sanity before proclaiming the obvious. What possible evidence can be produced over the internet to convince even a minute few that the time travel has accured? I would say that collective seeing on a constant basis such that sightings become as routine as eating toast for breakfast before all and few would be convinced. I recall that TT-0 stated that even on his world line most of the population do not believe in time travel. I would say how is a time travelor going to convince a group of people from our own generation that time travel has accured when the same feat in his/or her own time line would take quite an amazing feat. I believe that to even consider the possibility of time travel takes a person of faith. And it takes a person who choses to believe in time travel to truely traverse the necesary intellectial and economical barriers to acomplish that goal. I was considering using the superluminal waveguide where microwaves are forced through an iron bar such that the group velocity is greater then light as resonance to enable the iron bar to less virtually conduct the tachyons from my source by decreasing the density of space-time that seperates the tachyon source from the subluminal energy source and thus correcting the space and time dialation of the superluminal and subluminal entities within the iron antena. This will decrease the density seperating the subluminal energies from the superluminal energies and increase the magnitude of the tavchyon field permiating our iron antena. (please forgive any mispellings I am in quite a hurry). This is all just an extra I believe that the above is not necesary but will serve as maybe a tuner or rectifier. (I hope I am using these terms right). By increasing the density of a parallel propagating e and h field to infinity by generating a double phase field and bringing them in phase within a region; then creating a pressure on the field by running a conducter through the field of infinite density will result in the generation of subluminal negative energy. That is a positronic output. By introducing the superluminal mircrowaves one will conduct the tachyons at a higher probability rate as the fields increase in density to infinity–at which time the conduction of tachyons will increase in probability-which is amplitude-to an infinite amplitude.

sincerely,

 

Edwin G. Schasteen

 

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DaViper

unregistered posted 12 January 2001 01:30

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Buzz:

Very good.

 

It’s like the old joke from 2 or three years ago regarding why “Star Trek” will never be a reality.

 

1. The transporter – All ya gotta do is transport to the Met Museum of Modern Art in NYC, steal all the big $$$ paintings, and retire. Nothing you ever own will ever be safe again once the transporter is invented. This works just as well for TT-O’s methods as well.

 

2. The “Holodeck” will be the last invention of Man. Think about it.

 

So why wouldn’t Time Travel? Human nature. Ever meet anyone who didn’t wanna be somewhere/when else?

 

(Smile).

 

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huh?

unregistered posted 12 January 2001 12:00

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I have been to the TIME TRAVEL COMMUNITY that time traveler_0 mentioned on the 9th but it has not been up for two days. everytime you go there now it says “Hmmm we can’t find that page.”

what happened to it?

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TimeTravelActivist

Member posted 12 January 2001 19:44

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rgrunt,

I’m just curious about something. You seem to be TT_0 biggest supporter. How old are you by way? Cause it sounds as if he’s your role model or something .

 

-J.C.

 

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Shadow

unregistered posted 12 January 2001 21:24

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TT_O

(Just curious… what do you think of IT (GInger) )

 

We ain’t supposed to know yet. But I do sincerely thank them for adding an element of suspense to my life.

 

I’ve spent the last 12 years learning to cope with some of the most virulent, malignant, and chronic uncertainties known to man. When somebody adds one more to the pile I just burst out with giggles.

 

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Fast

Member posted 12 January 2001 22:37

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rgrunt

your always posting some of the longest and largest collections of rhetoric nonsense i have ever seen in all my life.

 

your message starts out saying people believe in aliens because it is more believable than time travel…and??

 

why exactly do people who dont believe time travel is possible come and check out the time travel boards?

 

why…nevermind.

 

FastWalker2

 

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Chick_Magnet

unregistered posted 13 January 2001 12:21

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First off, why would anybody even wnat to kill their grandparents? Just kill yourself if your that depressed. Don’t bring your family into it. Or make sure your parents don’t fall in love. It’s all bullshit.

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Magnetic Chick

unregistered posted 13 January 2001 04:34

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Ooooo.

Good one.

 

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——————–

Got light? Make matter.

 

[email protected]

 

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Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged

 

Pamela

Moderator

Member # 15

 

posted December 25, 2002 21:50

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Time-travel Paradoxes! (Page 9)

 

 

Author Topic: Time-travel Paradoxes!

[email protected]

unregistered posted 13 January 2001 15:20

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Fast,

the first part of the letter was to the general audience of the forum. The second is to certain persons who I confer with to add to their knowlege conscerning a project that we are involved with. The last part of the letter is part of a much larger technical conscept only those who work closest with me would be able to decipher, understand, or utilze that knowlege. In short I somtimes use this to relay knowlege to my coherts. Even some of them will not fully understand this knowlege until I am able to break it down and expain what I mean. For this is merely to transfer the knowlege while giving away as littly usable technical detail as possible. I will reword the first part of the paragraph:

I simply mean to state that most of the population does not believe in UFO’s despite the numerous sightings. And that if the majority will not accept the existance of UFO’s the majority will not accept the existance of time travel either.

cheers,

 

Edwin G. Schasteen

 

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DaViper

unregistered posted 14 January 2001 04:39

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rgrunt:

Ah, OK. I get your point. I’m not one who has ever seen a UFO and also know that there are a lot of phonies out there claiming to have experiences that are either deluded or just plain lies from the outset.

 

But…I can’t help believing that the existence of extra-terrestrials MUST be so on the sheer logic of the odds alone. I’m not CONVINCED they exist, but I can’t see how they could NOT. This is not faith, just deductive reasoning.

 

Time Travel on the other hand is something I would LOVE to believe as a possibility. Would jump at the chance to endorse if someone somewhere could give me just a glimmer of hope, faith, logic or even reasonable speculation in the mere possibility of. But alas, one burning question remains unanswerd for me. How does one travel to a where/when that actually does not exist in the first place? In other words, how is it ever not eternally here/now?

 

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TimeTravelActivist

Member posted 14 January 2001 04:43

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This thread has gotten lame. If it isn’t some guy claiming to be from the future, and backing down when he knows he can’t answer my questions. It’s rgrunt, making no sense at all.

I think the moderators should just end this thread, and put it out of it’s misery.

 

Unless we see some real dialouge going, we’re way off topic here.

 

-Javier C.

 

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Roel van Houten

Member posted 14 January 2001 10:11

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Hi,

With all due respect mr. TimeTravelActivist, but you to have contributed to the decline of this thread. To be honest, TimeTravel_0 had more useful things to say than you.

 

I’m not at all convinced he is a timetraveler, but his posts often carried some information that I could think about. Ask him some clear questions instead of vague stories.

 

Greetings from rainy Amsterdam

 

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rgrunt

unregistered posted 14 January 2001 17:02

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With all do respect timetravelactivist, I am somewhat relieved that you cannot or choose not to comprehend the information being delivered. Some info is better left to the experts which is why I am not building my own invention. You are not the only one who is aprehensive of the prospects and consequences of the development of time travel. One who I would call a friend is borderline paranoid at the prospect and has threatened recourse any such device is developed. I can honestly say that my original intention was not the development of a time travel device, but an energy source to enable the production and distribution of massive amounts of energy for industrial use and/or consumption. The nature of the device as I developed it revealed quite accidently the possibility of yielding sufficient energy for the manipulation of time itself. It appears that the two limiting factors that are holding back technological progress is the limitation of energy and energy containment. It is like we used to say in aircraft mechanic school, if you give anything enough thrust you can make it fly as is proven by every successful flight of any given harrier fighter jet. If you can produce enough energy I suppose anything is possible–even time travel. I will tell you one thing though, I will not be detered from the development and inplementation of this device–even if it must be developed behind closed doors. I feel that it is time for the world to take serious measures into the energy crisis. We have, so I have heard, about twenty-five years worth of fossil fuels. Here is one possible temperary solution to prolong the consumption of energy. I have heard that the radio-active gas radon is quite plentiful on the lunar surface. Radon happens to be one of the radio active gasses produced by the degradation of Uranium Metal. One option may be to develop NASA drilling teams to go to the moon and search for uranium deposits. If there turns out to be quite a large supply of uranium on the lunar surface that we might be able to develop spacial containers to collect and preserve uranium over the next 25 years while we still have the fuel sources to do so. This might give us a couple of hundred more years of electrical energy on our planet to research for an answer to the energy crisis by continueing research into discovering the ultimate energy source. Since the current form of economy is limiting us by being so dependend on oil and other competitive businesses I thought that maybe a new economy system would be worth considering. If we were to take the economic losses acruid by businesses that fail to succeed on the open market and set up a virtual account and allow that estimated monetary loss to be recirculated back into the economic system in the form of virtual tender in the account of the failed business to spend only on research and development. The failed business can use the cash to develop advanced products for sell. The failed business is then free to spend the profits gained by the newly developed products for personal gain of that business. The bussiness can pay a small tax on the money gained to support the goverment. The oil companies will be satisfied for no inventions can put them out of business on account that any losses acruid by the oil companies as a result of alternate energy sources can be claimed by the oil companies in the form of virtual cash for them to spend on other products such as computers and etc. The more worthy competition the oil companies gain the more money the oil companies gain which is true for everyone. The oil companies will promote the development of advanced tachnologies both on their own and by supporting the competition. Everyones losses will be everyones gains. We can still allow the current money system be usable but can also allow for monetary systems to be kept on massive computer acounts in the form of supercomputers. By having this set up we will use the natural human trait of greed to reinforce our development and in the mean time decrease the crime rate by allowing all persons to have the right to purchase shares of a given business through the stock market. I bet that we if this system will allow every one to gain that we would have no problem getting people to sign petitions to bring this bill before congress. So what does everyone think? Is this a good idea? Don’t hold back now?

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DaViper

unregistered posted 14 January 2001 18:33

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Hmmm.

The more I read rgrunt, the more I tend to have respect for him as a person. I started out being very critical of him, but in the end…

 

He makes no outlandish claims, only speculations and the reasons he makes them. All in all, this seems quite clear to me and not the least bit confusing.

 

Whether one agrees with him or not is beside the point. That’s in individual right. But his pronounements are by his own admission, speculative and as such, come across in an open minded sense. It doesn’t appear to me he’s trying to “snow” anybody. I can’t say the same for all others here.

 

And his thoughts on energy levels relative to Time Travel seem to be right on topic as far as Paradoxes are concerned. i.e. – Maybe Time Travel is possible IF enough energy can be generated and contained/controlled. But that’s the paradox. So far, we have no way to do this. Maybe we never will, maybe we can solve it. But a “Paradox” is only ever really that. Failure to understand a problem that seems unsolvable, or the realization that there never was a problem in the first place.

 

As I’ve said before, “Paradox” is an invention of the mind, not something that ever actually occurs in Nature or the Universe. They only SEEM that way to us due to lack of understanding.

 

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DaViper

unregistered posted 14 January 2001 18:41

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TTA:

May I politely offer that perhaps the reason you think this thread is getting “lame” is that at the moment it is not filled with folks who simply take someone else at their word when they make claims of what they can do.

 

How is this any different from TT_1 making claims and then sidestepping all attempts to get him him to show verifiable evidence to back them up?

 

If one requires gullibility in others to be successful in one’s arguments, then the arguments can’t have much merit in the first place.

 

The solution to Time travel, (if there is one), requires solid scientific investigation, verification, and publication of said verifiable results for confirmation by others qualified to do so.

 

As yet, there is little of that going on here.

 

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TimeTravelActivist

Member posted 14 January 2001 20:28

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oookkaaayyy .

I’m an Activist, or did you forget that. If you boys and girls can’t see that, then I don’t know what to tell you.

 

I post what I think is another side you people are over looking. And from the sounds of your posts, your completely oblivious to perceiving that side.

 

If it wasn’t for me on this thread, you wouldn’t have asked TT_0 the questions I did. And for that, he is now backed down.

 

Why? Who knows? Maybe he realizes any further comments on my part, such as ones he cannot answer will hinder his fantasy role playing.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I like fantasy stuff. But if he is what he says, he will answer my comments and show us proof. I would if I could.

 

Now let me ask you something, did you think about seeing it that way?

 

-Javier C.

 

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Shadow

unregistered posted 14 January 2001 21:56

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TimeTravelActivist

Quote: “I am an activist, or did you forget that……..”

Are you sure your don’t mean “agitator”?

 

Quote2: “But if he (TT_O) is what he says, he will answer my coments and show proof. I would if I could.”

 

Right guy, “*I* would if I could.” Does the word LAME have any meaning for you? When are *you* going to prove *your* story? Never thats when. But I’m sure that won’t stand in the way of your coninuing to run your mouth.

 

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TimeTravelActivist

Member posted 15 January 2001 01:40

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Man Shadow, you sound like a real @$$-hole in that last post you know. At least the others said their peace with a little respect.

I have been trying not to attack anyone since my return. And look at you, you hypocrite. Calling me an “agitator.”

 

So what would you have had me say? I have often times attempted to speak of my experiences and try to make sense of them. If I could somehow, find some way to prove to people of what I am going through is for real, believe me I would.

 

Why is it so hard for someone to prove something if he can? Especially more when he claims he’s what he is.

 

Roel van Houten,

What vauge stories are you talking about? Can you point one out to me, please ?

 

DaViper,

Gullible people? Not in here… you must be mistaken.

 

-Javier C.

 

[This message has been edited by TimeTravelActivist (edited 15 January 2001).]

 

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DaViper

unregistered posted 15 January 2001 04:45

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TTA:

I don’t think I accused anyone of being gullible here have I? I’ve stated what I think that term means, and how it pertains to those who allow others to get away with any argument in an unquestioned manner. I don’t believe I’ve pointed a finger at anyone in particular tho.

 

Frankly, in my opinion the board is LESS lame when it contains sceptics who keep the conversation going in a speculative manner, rather than when it becomes a forum for any one person to direct the conversation while all others simply nod in agreement.

 

If a soultion to Time Travel is EVER to be found, it will come from stimulated debate, which fosters creative thought and experimentation, not “preaching to the choir”.

 

This may be fun and all for problems that have already been solved, but Time Travel has not. Not to any degree that satisfies MY scepticism anyway. This is not to say I declare it to be impossible. But I DO think thought in other than the traditional directions (Time Machines, Parallel Universes, etc.) is in order to reach a solution if there is one. The aforementioned are merely old ways of conceptualizing it that have ultimately produced, well, nothing. In the way of any PROOF that is.

 

I doubt seriously that the answer lies in EITHER of these two approaches. But, I COULD be wrong about that.

 

Thanks for your response.

 

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DaViper

unregistered posted 15 January 2001 05:00

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P.S. TTA:

As far as your personal experiences are concerned, I’m not critisizing what you say you experience. You sound like a genuine person to me who is relating what you feel and even the sometimes confusion you feel by having had these experiences. That in itself speaks to your credibility.

 

Since I have not had the experiences you have, I can’t comment either way. It would seem that your experiences suggest that Time Travel is more a spiritual experience than an actual physical one, but even that which can be described as the “spiritual” side of each of us as individuals, remains undefined itself does it not.

 

Ergo, I cannot dismiss them nor can I accept them out of hand. No critisism intended there. Just ponderance of the fact that to me they are “interesting”.

 

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Enforcer of Time

Member posted 15 January 2001 08:52

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Thanks DaViper,

For clearing things up for me, and for others on this board as well (hopefully).

Basically that’s what I mainly been trying to get across in my recent posts. That we shouldn’t go along with what someone says. I have only been asking the questions, no one has bothered to ask.

 

And that upset-ted a few people, forgive me folks…

 

Hence my little sarcasm in that last comment I made to you; “Gullible people? Not in here… you must be mistaken.” Get it ?

 

Nevertheless, it’s not my place to try and convince people about my experiences. Cause it’s never been about that, it’s always been about being critical of Time Travel, and Time Travelers intentions. Some how someone keeps bringing up something about my experiences, and that I can’t prove anything, so why am I even talking if I can’t prove anything my self, is the point someone’s been trying to impose on me.

 

So then, the topic isn’t about my comments of my last post anymore, but of what someone criticized me on. Then everyone gets to talking about it, as if this is what I am trying to convince others about. huuuaggh.

 

It makes a big mess, it confuses everything. I haven’t made any stories, nor have I even spoken of my experiences. Yet, it may sound like I did because that’s what everyones talking about. Further more, I would like to see if we can go back before all this confusion started. It was when I posted a few comments for TT_O to respond, say about 4 days ago.

 

They were about his intentions as a Time Traveler. Ethical, or not? Disregarding his own Time line by spilling the beans. Says alot, don’t you think.

 

Sincerely,

Javier C.

 

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Enforcer of Time

Member posted 15 January 2001 09:06

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[This message has been edited by Enforcer of Time (edited 15 January 2001).]

 

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Enforcer of Time

Member posted 15 January 2001 09:08

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P.S. You might be wondering why the new name. Well I got the idea for this name after playing this cool RPG game. “The Wheel of Time.” Just thought I use a new name, as a change of pace.

——————

For what was, for what is, and for what will be. I will fight for it’s preservation.

 

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TimeTravel_0

unregistered posted 15 January 2001 12:04

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In the post that follows, I’ve tried to answer the latest questions directed at me but I am hoping you all may be able to add some insight into something I’ve noticed. In our attempt to communicate here, some of the comments on this board have become increasingly hostile and negative. I see the same type of interaction when I watch news interview programs. The guise of productive interaction and communication is thwarted by illogical verbal attacks and misdirection. I understand why the news does it. They are trying to hold an audience by generating conflict. For a while, I thought that was the goal here too but it appears that anger and conflict is being created on this site to cause genuine harm and pain.

Its hard for me to believe that this is being done on purpose so I have concluded I simply do not understand some hidden element of your collective social interaction. On the other hand, if its being done for no reason, I would understand a little better how people in this time could accomplish so much and yet be so vulnerable to their emotions and fears. I think it was Thomas Jefferson who believed that the only way to sway opinion was through calm, respectful, intelligent conversation.

 

Weather I’m a time traveler or not, I suppose there are numerous ways to view my “story”. By the nature of the communication medium, I believe it’s impossible to prove therefore it’s impossible to believe. I agree that conversation spurs ideas. If I’m not a time a time traveler, than perhaps the seemingly disjointed statements I make will actually create the idea in one of you that leads to “real” time travel.

 

(What is a WORLDLINE?)

 

Individual worldlines represent the limits and paths physical objects take through space-time under the laws of special relativity. They can be shown graphically on an x-y graph with x representing distance in space and y representing passing of time. In time travel talk, worldlines are used as a way to describe and separate the experiences of a time traveler because various laws of special relativity appear to breakdown and can’t be defined on a single worldline. Worldline has also become synonymous with “alternate universe” and / or “time line”.

 

((I see you take things from this world to bring back to your own world. books, computers what have ya. as well as probably the other TT do as well.

Do you pay for those items? or do you just “steal” them?

what do you pay with if you pay?))

 

I pay for these items with money. Personally, I believe stealing is wrong.

 

((…could not a TT (time traveler)basically take whatever they wanted from any time?))

 

There are mass limits to what can be taken back.

 

((… do you have to take psychological tests before you are chosen? what attributes should a time traveler have in your opinion?))

 

Yes, there are numerous psychological tests. I was chosen based on my educational background and military service. The training lasted about two years. There is a great deal of physical training to counter the physical effects of distortion. They were also looking for drivers who had a fair amount of self-sufficiency and an ability to function under extreme isolation and confinement.

 

((What are some things they look for when they chose someone for a mission?))

 

Depending on the mission, time travelers are usually chosen for a particular mission based on their ability to gain the cooperation of someone related to the goal on the target worldline. In my case, my grandfather was directly involved with the building and programming of the 5100.

 

((If they pick a bad seed by mistake and send them time traveling and that person does harm is there anyway they can go after that person? I am curious about all of this.))

 

Interesting question. There is a difference of philosophy between us that should be clarified. Since I believe that all possible outcomes and events are possible, probable and certain, it is impossible to assign “goodness” or “badness” to a person or situation. On some other worldline, I am an insane time traveler causing destruction and death while TTA chases me with his band of devoted followers. However, on this one, I am not. Since both events are certain, their value is neutral.

 

Therefore, you can only assign goodness and badness to the events and experiences you have direct control over or witness. Only actions are good and bad, not people or things. I suppose if I was a psychotic killer, I could accomplish my mission, avoid capture and still return to my worldline of origin without penalty. There would be no way for them to know what happened. However, I believe that action is wrong and I would be accountable to my God.

 

((Interesting, if you are from the future, you could tell us just exactly what IT is. Since no one will know for sure until probably 2002 according to news reports. The picture that I saw on ABCNEWs.com of what they thing IT is did not seem to impressive.))

 

I suppose this question is my own fault. As a time traveler, I am expected to know every winning horse and hot stock as well as the weather in all parts of the world at all times. I was genuinely interested in your opinion of how “IT” was being presented and advertised. Do you feel manipulated? Do you think it’s really a big deal? Do you like the way the news is dealing with it?

 

((…didnt TT_0 say in a previous post that we were looked down on by future generations, if he is from a “parellel timeline”,how would he know this??))

 

This worldline and my own are almost exactly alike.

 

((How is this any different from TT_1 making claims and then sidestepping all attempts to get him to show verifiable evidence to back them up?))

 

Did you mean TT_0 or TT_1?

 

((They were about his intentions as a Time Traveler. Ethical, or not? Disregarding his own Time line by spilling the beans. Says alot, don’t you think.))

 

How do you think my actions here affect my own worldline?

 

((P.S. You might be wondering why the new name. Well I got the idea for this name after playing this cool RPG game. “The Wheel of Time.” Just thought I use a new name, as a change of pace.))

 

Is the “The Wheel of Time” one of those “fantasy” role-playing games you mentioned earlier?

 

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Enforcer of Time

Member posted 15 January 2001 16:04

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TT_0,

Ok man, I have to had it to you. Your smart, and know how to please a crowd. But you have to admit that your coming here and saying your a Time Traveler is a bit suspect. I know, that you have a hidden agenda. You have not made clear your motives, and are only giving us very little proof. Why you holding back…?

 

I still believe your buying into people’s fascination. Your a good study in communications and science, and know how to handle upsets very well.

 

(You sure your not some corporate PR guy).?

 

Which is probably why so many people believe your story. But your not Anti-Time Travel like me. None of you have ever been manipulated by a Time Travelers plan for 21 years.

 

Which is not to say they are, and you just don’t know it.

 

Am I right, TT_0? You do alot of work in the background of our society, admit it. Adjusting things to fit your futures agenda. That’s the only reason you can ever have an interest in the past.

 

You know, I don’t know why you keep making me look like the bad guy here. After all, what have I done but just ask you some critical questions. And you respond by saying that all future TTA are trying to murder you. I’m not you, I believe in a criminal justice system. I wasn’t trained to kill, like you were.

 

What are your personal beliefs TT_0? You said you believe in God, which one? Honestly, do you think the ends justifies the means? Don’t you have people regulating Time Travel?

 

You said your self you don’t care what happens to your worldline. You don’t care about your actions, and what they will affect?

 

You are a cheater of life… What ever happened to preservering against adversity? You take back home the solution, without trying to handle it there. And in that, you threaten to change billions of lives. And that strikes you as no big deal?

 

And what’s worse, I am the only one on this board who has enough moral sense to see that as wrong. Watch, someone is going to attack me now.

 

So is there any such thing as wrong for you TT_0 while in the past that you are forbidden to do, or is it all just a free for all?

 

Yes, actually The Wheel of Time is a fantasy role playing game. Don’t you have Final Fantasy XVIII out in 2036?

 

Truly,

Javier C.

 

——————

For what was, for what is, and for what will be. I will fight for it’s preservation.

 

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Shadow

unregistered posted 15 January 2001 20:48

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RE: Ugliness on the board:

TT_O shouldn’t an historian-anthropolagist, even an amateur, be a bit more up to speed on psychology? There is no big mystery here. It is simple. Some people get off on telling others what to do. Others get sick of listening to it. I’d like to say here that the ‘some people’ I refer to, know who they are. But I’m not sure they do.

 

Here is a theory for you. “This whole board is a communist plot to send thinking people home doubting their sanity”. (And this where you say “you don’t know the half of it pal ! “)

 

——————–

Got light? Make matter.

 

[email protected]

 

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Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged

 

Pamela

Moderator

Member # 15

 

posted December 25, 2002 21:58

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There is a problem with the second half of page 9.

It won’t post for some reason. So I posted the first half. I sent the second half to Olav to see if he can figuere out what is causing it not to be posted. When we identify the problem it will be placed in this little area here.

 

-Ok found out what the problem was. There was a spot where John was quoting Javier and he had arrows there I replaced the arrows with 5 stars.

The arrows was the problem so they were deleted and the 5 stars were added in their place.

 

Fast

Member posted 15 January 2001 21:00

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—-

Art Bell Returns to Radio:

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/artreturns.html

FastWalker2

 

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WanderingSoul

Member posted 15 January 2001 21:25

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—-

Although I do not post here often, I do enjoy the thoughtful discussions and

mind challenging questions that arise…

The spiritual aspect of TT_O ‘s discussions and presentations have been

especially interesting, given my interests.

 

*smiling* I chuckled at the perception of time and the knowing not with

God… some concepts are indeed timeless.

 

Everyone needs a devil’s advocate…someone to muddy up the waters…it

creates an atmosphere where belief is supported by the interaction of faith,

a sense of knowing, and the physical reality we each experience daily…

 

If we are not challenged and nudged to think beyond accepted thought, then

we can not create opportunities to broaden our scope of thinking… thus

experiencing.

 

Perhaps we do not all agree on the process by which the challenge and nudge

are laid down…yet there is inherent value in all things.

 

Be safe and dream sweetly.

 

WS

 

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Crono

Member posted 15 January 2001 23:24

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—-

Hey Enforcer, we have some good time travel games here in the present. Ever

played Chrono Trigger? That’s where I got my name from.

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DaViper

unregistered posted 16 January 2001 03:13

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—-

Alright!

For me, this is all beginning to work now in the manner I hope everyone has

intended it to. Yup. It’s gettin’ “curiouser and curiouser”.

 

Enforcer: (cool name. Choose what you like, I’ll run with that. And I think

I’ll stay DaViper for a while.)

 

You are right. Once everyone comes around to admitting that none of us has

the answer, we can cut to the chase of REALLY seeing if we can find one. And

I know we ALL would like to find one or we wouldn’t be here in the first

place would we.

 

TT_0:

I stand corrected. I mis-typed your handle and it came out TT_1 by mistake.

I appologize for that.

 

I also stand by my assesment of what I see you doing. No offense. I’ve

checked your web site and will say that I think the SITE is well done and

interesting. But I cannot surrender my opinion that it is Fiction as you

have always intended it to be. And not that bad at that.

 

I see you as a person who is utilizing fiction to express your opinions as

to how the problem of time Travel COULD be solved. OK. As I’ve said before,

this board itself is presented as “fiction” in the first place, as it states

right on the Home Page. But… does THAT stop us from contemplating the

possibilities that we ALL would like to explore. On the contrary! It

stimulates them. The Web Authors here have accomplished their goal in

getting the topic off the ground for discussion. It’s a great site. I

personally have been visiting it for over two years now under various

handles.

 

(I’ll stick with “DaViper” for now.)

 

So…

 

Since (to me anyway), the topics of “Time Machines” and “Parallel Universes”

have been beaten to death, how about exploring other possibilities as to a

possible solution, since these two ALWAYS lead to SOME form of Paradox which

I hope we all agree CAN’T be so by the very nature of the simple fact that

the Universe contains NO Paradoxes.

 

In short, I think there is something awry with ALL of our thinking,

including MINE. But I can’t put my finger on just what it is.

 

Peace to all.

 

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Enforcer of Time

Member posted 16 January 2001 05:08

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—-

Just some commentary…

WanderingSoul,

I don’t know where you learned it, but it sure is affective.

 

Crono,

Thanks for reminding me, I gotta find the EMU file for it.

 

Fast,

Do you know where I can find out what station he will be airing on in my

location?

 

TT_0, care to answer my questions this time?I made sure to put lots of ???

so I wouldn’t get excuses that they weren’t any.

 

And Shadow, I don’t know what to think about you. You sound awfully cold.

 

Good night,

Javier C.

 

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TimeTravel_0

unregistered posted 16 January 2001 10:43

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—-

(( I know, that you have a hidden agenda. You have not made clear your

motives, and are only giving us very little proof. Why you holding

back…?))

 

Rest assured there is nothing I have planned in my “hidden agenda” that will

make anyone’s life any worse than it already might be.

((Am I right, TT_0? You do alot of work in the background of our society,

admit it. Adjusting things to fit your futures agenda. That’s the only

reason you can ever have an interest in the past.))

 

I plan to leave soon. There is nothing I can do here that will affect my

home. My goals are based on the love I have for my family. Actually, my

inertest in the past is a result of going through piles of half burned books

and magazines left over from a war started by people you share this planet

with right now. On that note, perhaps its more interesting to consider what

I won’t be doing to try and stop that war.

 

((I wasn’t trained to kill, like you were.))

 

***** “Well it’s a good thing I got injured in the Army, or else that might

have been my fate as well.” *****

 

I could have sworn you mentioned you were in

the army?

 

((What are your personal beliefs TT_0? You said you believe in God, which

one? Honestly, do you think the ends justifies the means? Don’t you have

people regulating Time Travel?))

 

How many Gods are there? I believe in just one. What are your suggestions

for regulating time? Perhaps a list of your “time rights” would be something

to spark conversation on the board.

 

((You said your self you don’t care what happens to your worldline. You

don’t care about your actions, and what they will affect?))

 

I’m not sure I ever said I didn’t care about my own worldline. If you could

find and quote that, I would appreciate it.

 

((You are a cheater of life… What ever happened to preservering against

adversity? You take back home the solution, without trying to handle it

there. And in that, you threaten to change billions of lives. And that

strikes you as no big deal?))

 

I think I understand what you’re asking. I’m just guessing that “cheater of

life” is not a compliment. I can’t think of a reason why my actions would be

immoral and someone else’s would not. You suggest I’m capable of changing

lives. I suggest that I’m no more capable of that than you are. I’m just not

so sure you recognize your own potential. You don’t need a time machine to

save or destroy people. If there was another person doing the exact same

things I was but they didn’t have a time machine, would they be putting

billions of lives at stake and suffer your judgment?

 

((So is there any such thing as wrong for you TT_0 while in the past that

you are forbidden to do, or is it all just a free for all?))

 

Yes, I believe in wrong and right. I judge my actions based on God’s law. Is

it wrong for me to murder? Yes it is. Is it wrong for me to teach someone

how to defend themselves and they commit murder? No, I am not their keeper.

Since I am leaving, I will be incapable of causing any harm. But, what

damage will you do with anything I have said?

 

((Yes, actually The Wheel of Time is a fantasy role playing game. Don’t you

have Final Fantasy XVIII out in 2036?))

 

Yes, we have games.

 

((TT_O shouldn’t an historian-anthropolagist, even an amateur, be a bit more

up to speed on psychology?))

 

I apologize. I am learning all the time and I wish I were smarter too. You

must remember that reading about a society is one thing and being exposed to

it is another.

 

((TT_0, care to answer my questions this time?I made sure to put lots of ???

so I wouldn’t get excuses that they weren’t any.))

 

I was not trying to offer excuses. Please forgive my ignorance. I was

unaware that question marks were optional.

 

IP: Logged

 

pamela

Member posted 16 January 2001 13:20

—————————————————————————-

—-

Well, it looks like if anybody has any questions to ask TTO…now would be

the time to do so.

I have learned so much over the past few months. with the added info I have

gained I have went back and reread books such as hyperspace and string

theories and blackhole books I had and things are really starting to fall

into place with the additional info I have gathered. pieces are being fit

together to create a beautiful picture of the nature of time. it is funny as

I am reading some of the old info I had and now the new I will find myself

saying “oh…now I understand…”

I am very busy studying at this time.

and yes,Daviper, always searching for the truth in new theories and

beyond.as I have always said “science fiction of today may become tomorrows

science fact.”

I am sorry that you did not respond to my e-mail for an opportunity to chat

with TTO,Mr. Schasteen and time 02112.perhaps you were busy. I tried to get

a hold of you both yesterday.

I have had wonderful chats with TTO.

last night djayr42(Joe)and I talked to him for I believe over three hours.

He is a wonderful person and I am sorry you may never get to know that.

 

sincerely,

pamela

 

[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 16 January 2001).]

 

IP: Logged

 

Prophet

Junior Member posted 16 January 2001 15:03

—————————————————————————-

—-

Well, I must say this thread has piqued my interest. I have a few questions

for TT_0:

First, where does your interest in the (our) U.S. Constitution stem from?

 

Why do you think it is so vital for us to read and understand it?

 

Second, do you not like your “new” Constitution?

 

Or feel that it is not as effective as the original?

 

Third, you keep saying that you will be going back to your worldline soon,

how soon will this be?

 

Can you give a specific day? Or week?

 

I have many questions for you and would like to be able to know how much

time I have left to ask them of you.

 

rgrunt:

 

Could you please space out your posts to make it easier to read – it is very

difficult to read a post that is in one large block of words compared to one

that has each thought, or idea, seperated by spaces.

 

Prophet

 

Edited for clarification

 

[This message has been edited by Prophet (edited 16 January 2001).]

 

IP: Logged

 

Enforcer of Time

Member posted 16 January 2001 19:03

—————————————————————————-

—-

TT_0,

I don’t think you got my point… But your leaving, and I’m tired of telling

you. So I just don’t care anymore.

 

Yes, I was in the Army… But I was injured, I didn’t finish going through

BCT. In addition, I guess you can say I had a change in perspective about

life, after my accident.

 

I don’t wish to comment any further about that…

 

And as for you saying you didn’t care about your worldline, here it is, you

saying it.

 

Excerpt from: Time-travel Paradoxes! (Page 2)

 

————————-

TimeTravel_0

unregistered posted 12 November 2000 16:41

—————————————————————————-

—-

(Have you considered the possible adverse consequences the person might face

that you had post them for you since you remain covert? or don’t you care

since it is not your world line. what about the people that read the

information and attempt to build one? what if they get injured in the

process because they are not knowledgeable enough to handle the forces they

are playing with at this “time”.)

 

Yes, I have considered it but it is very easy to remain hidden behind a veil

of disbelief. The people who understand what they are seeing are not

aggressive. Everyone else just finds them entertaining. The obvious first

answer is that the only world line of consequence is my own and I don’t care

what happens here. That however, is not the case. I have shown these

documents in order that people might consider the possibility. I do not

expect people to believe them.

———————

 

Enjoy,

Javier C.

 

——————

“For what was, for what is, and for what will be. I will fight for it’s

preservation.”

 

IP: Logged

 

Shadow

unregistered posted 16 January 2001 19:47

—————————————————————————-

—-

To TT_O

Is it physically possible for you to get back to THIS time line once you

leave?

 

If all 7 Billion of us here each had our own time machine do you think that

would we would end up trashing the rest of the local worldlines?

 

Recomended movies:

Arthur C. Clarks’ 2001

WaterWorld (Kevin Kosner)

Dances With Wolves

Chrimson Tide

Backdraft

Forest Gump

Little Big Man

 

There are a lot of good movies of substance. Good movies like good books are

more than a mere passtime. I’ve got one heck of a book collection that I

probably won’t need come 2036. Any suggestions on where to drop it off? (It

weighs about 3000 pounds.)

 

Watch out for the time cops on your way out.

 

IP: Logged

 

WanderingSoul

Member posted 16 January 2001 21:19

—————————————————————————-

—-

*chuckling*

Enforcer:

 

I shall take it that was NOT a typo…

 

*still chuckling*

 

Be safe and dream sweetly.

 

WS

 

IP: Logged

 

Enforcer of Time

Member posted 16 January 2001 21:50

—————————————————————————-

—-

What’s so funny WanderingSoul? If I didn’t know better, I could swear your

laughing at me.

——————

“For what was, for what is, and for what will be. I will fight for it’s

preservation.”

 

IP: Logged

 

Curious

unregistered posted 17 January 2001 12:37

—————————————————————————-

—-

To TT_0, You have made a difference. You have at least opened some people’s

eyes to the possibility of time travel and what is going on around them. But

like I said earlier, you will leave, and the memory will fade. Some peoples

eyes will not stay open very long. Other people though, will grasp the

spark, hopefully making a difference. I think this has been a positive

experiance. I hope it has been for you too.

Safe trip home, and God speed. Maybe we will talk again some time ;~)

Curious

IP: Logged

 

P.Light

unregistered posted 17 January 2001 02:03

—————————————————————————-

—-

To T-T-A,

Let me just say this.

 

Even before you came here criticizing this foumn and T-T-O , i was here from

the beginning, asking the same questions. I have been watching this forumn

and watching the same questions being repeated over and over to T-T-O…..

 

He doesn’t answer your questions because there is no reason to. Read back

and you’ll see what i mean. He/She has told us before to read his previous

posts for answers and yes, there they are.

 

To R-Grunt, Could you please, in future ,write your answers in paragraphs?

Much easier to read, I might say. Thank you.

 

…..P.Light…..

 

IP: Logged

 

Enforcer of Time

Member posted 17 January 2001 03:45

—————————————————————————-

—-

P.Light,

Well excuse me… I just saw the post the first day I got back to this

board, and jumped right in to respond. As I’m sure that’s what most people

in this forum do anyway’s, am I right?

 

I read all his past post though. And that’s why I cut and paste something

that he said. The man said to quote him, or did you not read that part…?

He still hasn’t replied.

 

You seem to know him pretty well, are you his friend or something? I tell

you, a man can’t get a decent unbiased review in this board now a days.

 

Well maybe from DaViper, he doesn’t sound like he’s on anyones side.

 

Good night,

-Javier C.

 

P.S. I’ll bet you the next topic after my post will be on sides. Care to

place any bets who will take a crack at it?

 

——————

“For what was, for what is, and for what will be. I will fight for it’s

preservation.”

 

IP: Logged

 

TimeTravel_0

unregistered posted 17 January 2001 11:29

—————————————————————————-

—-

In the future, sociologists spend a great of time discussing the collective

mentality before the war that led to the demise of “Homo Materia”. Many of

them point to an experiment that was done in the 1970’s or 1980’s. The

experiment isolated various sizes of rat populations in varying cage sizes

with varying food and cleaning schedules. It was discovered that no matter

what, there was a certain ratio of rats to space that once overtaken by

population would always lead to aggressive and destructive behavior in the

rats until enough of them had died or been killed to get back under the

ratio. This was true even when the rats that were given plenty of food and

had their cage cleaned every day.

Besides the occasional school or office shooting and violent video game, I

can’t help but think about that experiment every time I see someone stranded

on the highway or walking on the side of the road carrying an empty gas can.

I ask my parents why we don’t stop and help and they tell me they are afraid

of being attacked and of the possible consequences of helping someone they

don’t know. I would respond by pointing out that it’s our duty to help

someone, not just because it’s the right thing to do, but because we can

never know that person’s true worth and the risk of losing then is too

great. I didn’t fully understand their stubbornness until I saw a news story

about a doctor who was sued for applying emergency first aid to an accident

victim who died. I believe your society is biologically geared for

self-destruction. However, I feel strongly that does not excuse me from my

responsibilities as a temporary member of this community.

 

Although TTA is a bit quirky and eccentric, he does belong to us. He’s this

community’s quirky and eccentric guy and although he can be aggravating, I

can’t help but feel protective of him. As I’m sure most of us believe, under

all of his postings, he has some interesting things to say. When I first

read one of his postings, I first shake my head and then I begin to question

my own understanding of not only the English language but of the real

meaning of the odd things he brings up. If it’s done on purpose, it’s quite

effective. I am often forced to go back through the dictionary or grammar

handbook just to make sure there’s not some obscure punctuation or grammar

rule I was unaware of.

 

As an example, when I read his mission statement, I do think the effect of

not writing a complete sentence before the period is dramatic but I am

forced to examine the word “it’s” and wonder if it represents the

contraction for “it is” or if it means the possessive of the understood

subject from the first part.

 

Please understand, I do not point this out to cause harm. People are often

first judged by the way they write and speak. I can’t help but think a great

deal of anger is a result of frustration to make ourselves understood.

Throughout our lives, a real understanding of how to communicate would help

anyone express themselves better. As I find myself double checking how to

use the English language I only recommend that TTA do the same. I am quite

anxious to his ideas or set of rules on the use of time travel.

 

IP: Logged

 

Trott

Member posted 17 January 2001 11:46

—————————————————————————-

—-

Although, I do not wish to take sides in this argument. TTA if you re-read

what you quoted, you will notice something.

—————

(Have you considered the possible adverse consequences the person might face

that you had post them for you since you remain covert? or don’t you care

since it is not your world line. what about the people that read the

information and attempt to build one? what if they get injured in the

process because they are not knowledgeable enough to handle the forces they

are playing with at this “time”.)

Yes, I have considered it but it is very easy to remain hidden behind a veil

of disbelief. The people who understand what they are seeing are not

aggressive. Everyone else just finds them entertaining. The obvious first

answer is that the only world line of consequence is my own and I don’t care

what happens here. That however, is not the case. I have shown these

documents in order that people might consider the possibility. I do not

expect people to believe them.

——————–

TT_0 says that the obvious first answer to the question is that he must not

care for what happens on any worldline except for his own. But notice

immediately after that sentence he says that is not however the case. That

the true answer is that he just wanted people to consider the possibility

and that is why he posted the material. He never says that the only time

line he cared to protect was his own.

 

IP: Logged

 

djayr42

Member posted 17 January 2001 20:14

—————————————————————————-

—-

I beleive the experiment was called “Hell’s Kitchen.”

IP: Logged

 

Fast

Member posted 17 January 2001 20:24

—————————————————————————-

—-

i dont understand why all these people are like ‘TT_0 touched me and opened

my eyes to the world’..

and TT_0 seems to change his opinion of the people of “this” time every

other post of his.

 

first he despised us,now he admires us for shaping the things to come??

 

FastWalker2

 

PS No tt_0 no questions were directed toward you in the making of this post.

 

IP: Logged

 

borgus

unregistered posted 17 January 2001 21:09

—————————————————————————-

—-

TimeTravel_0..

It has been fascinating to read your insights on the social flaws during

this time period. Since you are not a part of this society (or at least new

to it) it is more obvious for you than many of us.

 

Your observations strike a deep meaning with me, because I’ve spent the last

4 years writing a science fiction audio drama about the greed of humanity

around the year 2000.

 

What disturbs me is that, yes, there are many who understand these problems

of greed. Most of us know it exists, but cannot attribute the source. Some

think greed is the necessary thread which tightly holds our economy

together. There are the many that just accept greed as the normal way of

life, even though they know there is something wrong about it. Action is

never taken to fix the mindset of what money is really for.

 

There are always those who enjoy cheating, weaseling, and playing tricks to

gain false respect. Those people thrive on knowing how to get ahead. As long

as they win their steadfast race to personal satisfaction, they will always

influence others. It doesn’t matter how many of us become outward,

collective, and self-less… the greedy individuals will always rise.

 

So TimeTravel_0, having lived through the self destruction of the human

race, what sort of future do you imagine after 2036? Will humans colonolize

and expand through the solar system?

 

Or will we be forever bound to our inward existance, measuring the past,

fearfull of the future.

 

IP: Logged

 

WanderingSoul

Member posted 17 January 2001 21:41

—————————————————————————-

—-

Enforcer..

With, I hope… *smiling*

 

Life is short and battles need to be chosen with care…

 

*little shrug* There are few concepts in my life I expend emotional energy

on… The important ones gain my full attention. I simply believe that

everyone has something to contribute…even if we do not like it…agree

with it… or even understand it.

 

A personal value I hold.

 

Anything that challenges me to think beyond what I thought yesterday..opens

doors for me now and tomorrow *little smile*

 

*little shrug*

 

Life is good *grin*

 

Be safe and dream sweetly.

 

WS

 

IP: Logged

 

Enforcer of Time

Member posted 17 January 2001 22:10

—————————————————————————-

—-

That’s very nice of you Trott, answering for TT_0. But I’m sure he’s a big

boy now and can answer his own post, thank you very much.

TT_0,

By being the eccentric & aggravating guy in this community, do you mean the

guy that brings up things that are in opposition to the common ideals of

this board? Then sure, if you wish to define my actions like that, I really

don’t care.

 

As long as I am aware that what I am doing is looking at things from both

sides, and advocating freedom. What people say won’t make me give in to your

followers.

 

You can tell which ones they are by reading their posts. All this praise,

like if you were some God.

 

And further more, it’s a good thing you don’t know what my voice sounds

like. Or you’d criticize the way I pronounce things too, because I have a

slight accent.

 

After all, I am fluent in Spanish and English. Spanish is my native tongue

though. And it’s pretty hard to lose it, look at Ricky Martin, and Antonio

Banderas.

 

See Me here: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atrium/9822/pic8x.jpg

 

WanderingSoul,

There’s not much we know about you. You made a little comment about your

life, but that’s just it. No real insight as to who is giving this wisdom

(since your so good at giving it). Don’t you think we must first know who is

giving it? And how has it helped you? You just preach, even church preaches

give examples about their lives and others how it’s helped them. Think about

doing that, might make your posting seem less creepy (at times) and make

your words more effective.

 

Gotta Go,

Javier C.

 

——————

“For what was, for what is, and for what will be. I will fight for it’s

preservation.”

 

IP: Logged

 

[ December 31, 2002, 19:37: Message edited by: Pamela ]

 

——————–

Got light? Make matter.

 

[email protected]

 

——————————————————————————–

Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged

 

Pamela

Moderator

Member # 15

 

posted December 28, 2002 06:26

——————————————————————————–

Time-travel Paradoxes! (Page 10)

 

 

Author Topic: Time-travel Paradoxes!

WanderingSoul

Member posted 18 January 2001 12:10

——————————————————————————–

Enforcer…

Preach?

 

Nahhh I’ll read. Observe. … and draw my own conclusions based upon what is presented here. Like many others, I gleen alot out of everyone’s postings.

 

I am a nobody *little smile* If others gleen something from my sporadic postings…wonderful…if not…not.

 

Be safe and dream sweetly.

 

WS

 

IP: Logged

 

Shadow

unregistered posted 18 January 2001 12:11

——————————————————————————–

To borgus

Greed is a compass that points to The Conspiracy. It is a conspiracy of secrecy to hide/deny the fact that Homosapiens are as a species SELF-PREDITORY. Period.

 

Oops! I just spilled the beans. Ah, what the heck we all know the truth, we are just a little shy in admitting it.

 

IP: Logged

 

borgus

unregistered posted 18 January 2001 02:19

——————————————————————————–

To Shadow…

Other species kill each other too Its all about protecting DNA lines.

 

To TimeTravel_0…

 

Can you record a quick voice message for us before you leave?

 

IP: Logged

 

DaViper

unregistered posted 18 January 2001 04:50

——————————————————————————–

Yeah TT_0, OK.

I’ll go ahead and run with the way you want to tell it.

 

You are obviously a thinker on social issues, a contemplator of paradox, and hypothesizer of possibilities.

 

Correct me if I’m wrong here but I see you as a Libertarian who expounds on the need for humanity to get back to certain basics. Like the issues defined by the Constitution and your comments earlier on firearms tend to make me believe you are a Gun Rights activist.

 

So, no critisism intended here but…

(and you know I see your scenario as pure fiction on your part), could you give us your thoughts on how us “less enlightened” ones here in this worldline of the here/now can solve the technical problems of time travel so that we may be able to enjoy the same first hand knowledge you have that gives you these social insights?

 

I mean, EVERYBODY hates a tease right?

 

🙂

 

IP: Logged

 

Trott

Member posted 18 January 2001 10:00

——————————————————————————–

Mr. TT_0,

Let us assume you are a time traveller. I do not see any viable way for you to return to your own time line then. I say this because that you mentioned the difficulty with time travel in the sense of divergences. You said that you travelled back in time from 2036 to 1975 with a ~1-2% divergence. You also mentioned that in your time frame a 0% divergence is sort of a myth, i.e technologically improbable. Now if I understand your plan, you say you will once again travel back to 1975 before you arrived and then go forward as to avoid going into the future of our time line, which by your presence here would be an alternate future from your own. But what I would ask is, if you plan to go back to 1975 from 2000, you should incur a certain non-zero percent divergence just as you did going from 2036 to 1975. I would surmize that it is impossible or technologically improbable for you to go back to the exact world line you departed from then. Even if you are able to travel back with a 0% divergence, which by your previous words would be mythological, what would ensure you that the future you travelled into was exactly the world line you left. Since there are an infinite number of possible world lines departing from 1975 into the future. I suppose the key point of this argument is that any trip through time with your technology would result in a non-zero divergence, and in order for you to arrive in your own world line you must create a 0% divergent trip. This is amusing in the sense that the harder you try to get to your own world line the more divergences you incur and hence the furthur away you get. I believe I see the birth of a new temporal paradox.

IP: Logged

 

rgrunt

unregistered posted 18 January 2001 10:02

——————————————————————————–

I will be glad to double space and set up my

postings in paragraph form. Anything to make

 

my postings easier to understand.

 

cheers from rainy california,he he.

 

Edwin G. Schasteen

 

IP: Logged

 

BUZZ

unregistered posted 18 January 2001 11:54

——————————————————————————–

OH great. good going guys! now we will have a whole page of just rgrunt’s postings,double and tripled spaced with seperating topics and paragraphs and chapter numbers! HAHA

just joking,Rgrunt your postings are very interesting.

 

TTO-thankyou for answering my questions.

 

IP: Logged

 

Draco2

unregistered posted 18 January 2001 15:16

——————————————————————————–

Hey Everyone!! While I’ve been following this thread from the beginning and even conveyed a few thoughts on the topic matter as it evolved, I have been, for the most part, been following the topic discussion to TTO’s answers to everyones questions. I have come to a couple conclusions. First of all I want to commend TTO for provoking much thoughtfull and insightfull discussion on, even the probability much less the possability that what he says is true. And I would like to commend those that treated this topic discussion with respectful scrutiny and thought provoking questions for TTO. I understand that for TTO to reveal himself as a time traveler in this timeline on this board was a matter of great risk on his part and I commend him for it!! Who are we to say he’s not for real!!! Being a Druid MAGI I’ve also conveyed thoughts and realities that have fallen upon great scrutiny and rightly so. It is when we stop asking how and why that we are truely doomed as a race!! We have to open our minds and get peoples heads out of the sands of disbelief and ignorance, only then can we truely be ready for the next level, as a race. Individually, some are already at the doorway of the next level!! As a race there’s too much hate and greed for this to happen on an evolutionary scale for a while. That is a sad state of affairs!!

As far as I’m concerned, GODSPEED TTO!!!!

 

Respectably,

 

Draco the Druid

 

IP: Logged

 

rgrunt

unregistered posted 18 January 2001 15:18

——————————————————————————–

That was funny,

Now that I will be double spacing my posts

 

this string should be twenty pages long

 

within the next couple of days making

 

everyone think that there is something

 

really interesting being discussed on this

 

string. Just one question, once this string

 

of pages is long enough to be a book who

 

reserves the right to become a million-uhh-I

 

mean author of the book?

 

Ha Ha!

 

Edwin G. Schasteen

 

IP: Logged

 

Fast

Member posted 18 January 2001 17:56

——————————————————————————–

rgrunt,

the double spacing is not needed..just add a space inbetween ideas..

 

Draco,

your a druid?a friend of mine is Wiccan…their like ancient hippies

 

FastWalker2

 

“May you be Enlightened”–….

 

IP: Logged

 

markog1001

Junior Member posted 18 January 2001 21:53

——————————————————————————–

anyone know whats the best time travel device out there and where i can purchase one? also anyone know where i can locate any interdimensional portals in alabama, i live in birmingham, alabama.. …. mg

IP: Logged

 

rgrunt

unregistered posted 19 January 2001 15:33

——————————————————————————–

Draco2,

that is amazing. I read a book entitled “Druids” by an Irish female author, I don’t remember the name. The story was set back in roman times and was based on the early life of a chief druid by the name Ainvar…meaning ‘one who travels far’.

 

The events in the story were centered around the conflict between celts and the romans. The story finishes off with the defeat of the celts by the romans in one fantastic battle.

 

I was going to ask if you have ever heard of the story of Ainvar in the order? Is this a true story based on history or is it just a fictional book?

 

inquistively,

 

Edwin G. Schasteen

 

p.s. Is this ok for double spacing?

 

IP: Logged

 

Prophet

Junior Member posted 19 January 2001 15:47

——————————————————————————–

rgrunt:

Perfect

 

IP: Logged

 

rgrunt

unregistered posted 19 January 2001 19:33

——————————————————————————–

prophet:

Thanks.

 

IP: Logged

 

Draco2

unregistered posted 19 January 2001 21:28

——————————————————————————–

Hey RGUNT!! Actually I believe I may have read the same book you did.. I don’t have the book anymore and it’s been along time since I read it… The final battle resulted in the Celtic Cheiftain being put in chains and taken back to rome, where the drug him through the streets and stuck what was left of him on a pig pole… As far as a Druid from the Order named Ainvar it sounds familar but the true spellings of names was fully contingent on what language you are using….

~ Draco

 

IP: Logged

 

[email protected]

unregistered posted 20 January 2001 16:32

——————————————————————————–

Draco2,

Yes that is the same book I read. I thought it was a pretty good book. What about you?

 

inquisitively,

 

Edwin G. Schasteen

 

IP: Logged

 

Draco2

unregistered posted 20 January 2001 17:18

——————————————————————————–

The Book touched My Life in a way that only Great Books can!!!!!!!!

HAVE A GREAT DAY!!!

 

~Draco

 

IP: Logged

 

Enforcer of Time

Member posted 21 January 2001 07:00

——————————————————————————–

So the topic’s moved to Witchery now? What’s this board coming to …?

 

IP: Logged

 

observer

unregistered posted 21 January 2001 11:22

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whats wrong enforcer of time,

bored without timetraveler_0? are you going to advocate against this now?

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Enforcer of Time

Member posted 21 January 2001 17:38

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You must be a TT_0 follower .

Hey, whatever your religious beliefs are is none of my business. I can care less what you are, as long as you don’t mess with the Time Line.

 

I may not believe in the same thing as you do, I may even think it’s wrong. But that is not an important thing in my life to fight about right now.

 

Well maybe if it was a cult, that would be different. But you people are harmless , so I have no problem with you.

 

Just don’t mess with the Time Line, and I’m happy.

 

Sincerely yours,

Javier C.

 

——————

“For what was, for what is, and for what will be. I will fight for it’s preservation.”

 

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Fast

Member posted 21 January 2001 19:24

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EoF,

i dont see why you campaign on about affecting the time line,when you know that anybody in their right mind would do so.

 

in a multiverse of infinite possibilities,

if someone feels like they should have been a bus driver instead of an astrophysicist,then by all means quit your job and buy a bus…

 

im not a TT_0 fan,nor a soothsayer,but theres no use telling the people here about such nonsense…i heard this in some movie a while back: “your destiny is yours.you cant change it,but you can rise up to meet it.”

 

some words of wisdom from an eccentric soul.

 

FastWalker2

 

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P.Light

unregistered posted 22 January 2001 12:48

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Javier.C,

Does it look like i just jumped right in and answered?

i barely have enough time these days!

 

Followers?! “As if he was some God?”

 

I gotta tell you Javier.C, you sound as if you want the entire world to know how much you hate time travel and anyone from there.

Well, guess what. Your a time traveller too.

 

Think about it.

 

Just because someone comes from a few years in front doesn’t mean you have to slam them into oblivion. What if i was a T.traveller and i came from 3 seconds into the future?

What then? Would you still “Fight for its preservation?” then?

 

These days,you dont know what to believe anymore. If he is from 2036 and there is a war coming , Im sorry but you’ll be eating your words. On the other side, if T-T-O is full of it and is only here to promote this forum’s hits well then i stand corrected.

 

T-T-O is not my friend, nor does he wish to be. Weve never seen each other and probably never will. Anyway, with the information he has given us, i guess the damage has already been done for all of us wouldn’t you agree??

 

I take in oppinions, equations, theories and any information regarding any subject and formulate my own thoughts on the given subject. I dont think he is a God for giving this information, heck, he could be an employee of the U.S government here to find out what the population thinks of T.T! We could all be test subjects. Who’s to say we are not?

 

If time travel is possible ten million years from now, it will still be possible. Who is to say that humans are not visiting this exact time? You can’t stop time travel, it is inevitable.

 

—————-

OPEN YOUR MIND

 

P.Light

 

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Enforcer of Time

Member posted 22 January 2001 01:03

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Fast,

Perhaps somewhere deep in that eccentric soul of yours, you could perhaps muster up a little compassion to understand that there are still some people in this world who want to help and protect us.

 

If someone where to break into your home in the middle of the night, who would you want to come in to help you?

 

If you see someone in dying need of medical attention, wouldn’t you feel obligated to help, and if you did who would you call?

 

Problems like these will always exist in any universe. I agree with you on that?

 

But is it really so wrong with wanting to stop criminals from violating our rights?

 

We have Cops out there doing their hardest making sure the streets are safe for you and me. We have EMT’s ready to be dispatched to save your life if you broke your neck or fallen off a tree or something.

 

Crime is everywhere, and will always be there. So are we to just accept it and turn our backs on it?

 

That’s so easy to do. Yet there are some people in this society that would rather not have to live through a world like this.

 

And that’s where I believe that the same measures to protect people, should also be implemented to Time Travel. If you violate someone, you must pay. Simple as that.

 

Did I make my self clear Fastwalker 2, or am I to apologize to you too for having morals, like I did to TT_0?

 

Truly,

Javier C.

 

——————

“For what was, for what is, and for what will be. I will fight for it’s preservation.”

 

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Enforcer of Time

Member posted 22 January 2001 01:13

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Open your mind, huh? Sounds more like you’d let the bigger boys pick on you and have their way because there’s nothing to be done.

I don’t want to say what you sound like to me.

 

Because it’s all pretty obvious, isn’t it?

 

I gotta go, I have a load of laundry to do.

 

-J.C.

 

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rgrunt

unregistered posted 22 January 2001 15:34

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My conversation with Draco was strictly out of my admiration for ancient european history.

I am a christian and therefore do not agree with the ways of the accult and do believe that any religion that is against christ is not from God but from the devil.

 

I do not mean to insult anyone with this but it is my belief and I hold them also to be true. One day the lord will return and those who have believed on the name of Jesus and who have called upon Jesus to be saved shall be transfigured into an infinite immortal body. At that time all the things that we were involved in here that did not pertain to god will be meaningless.

 

For at that time time travel and our discussions here will be obsolete to us. God is the one who created the universe and he is the one that will destroy and recreate it again. When we stand before the judgement seat of christ for those who have accepted christ will be judged on there spiritual work. They will be given payment for the work they did for God. That means that if you do your day to day job to the best of your ability to please God and not just for personal gain: in addition to recieving your salary and raises here on earth you will also be payed by god when youre works are being evaluated at the judgement seat of Christ.

 

That is why I bring religion into this because I credit Jesus for all I have. He is given the glory for any success of mine.

 

God bless,

 

Edwin G. Schasteen

 

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Prophet

Junior Member posted 22 January 2001 16:44

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Amen brother!

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Time02112

Member posted 22 January 2001 21:36

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TT_0 Please read this, ang provide us with your comments…

(How many of the others here, have read this yet?)

(POLL) say AYE if you have, NAY if not,

“Not Yet” but plan to do so latter.

 

Time Travel Research Center : Interview with Dr. David Anderson@Frankfurt, Germany http://www.time-travel.com/timetech.htm

 

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DrMises

Junior Member posted 23 January 2001 01:45

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Aye, but only recently!

(caught your post in another thread)

-Theo

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DaViper

unregistered posted 23 January 2001 02:15

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Aye.

And been to his site as long ago as two and a half years.

 

Or was it only yesterday? 🙂

 

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Paul

Member posted 23 January 2001 11:17

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MY BOOK!

I didn’t think a topic about time-travel paradoxes I started would provoke so many replies! I wrote a book about my interest in time which is titled “Hope to time-travel”. For those interested I’m willing to e-mail softcopies for free. Just email:[email protected] (requesting a copy). I advertised my book in the Time Travel Institute Discussion Forum along with other places. I’d be grateful if you could send feedback, but you don’t have to.

——————

Paul Curran

 

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Prophet

Junior Member posted 23 January 2001 15:02

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DrMises:

Is your name in honor of Ludwig von Mises?

 

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DrMises

Junior Member posted 23 January 2001 18:40

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Prophet,

Perceptive, but not really.

 

Dr. Gustav Fechner (1801-1887).

 

He was a scientist and precursor to experimental psychology who had a difficult time settling an internal conflict between his psychophysical research and his conflicting viewpoints.

 

To alleviate this strife, he published a series of scathing articles under the pen name “Dr. Mises.”

 

It felt appropriate, for slightly different reasons. Thanks for asking!

 

-Theo

 

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1984-

unregistered posted 23 January 2001 19:30

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John,

Iam worried about you let me know you are ok.

-psalm 139:7-10

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Fast

Member posted 23 January 2001 22:07

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Paul…

i dont think your first post provoked this discussion..it was TT_0’s claims of time travel…

 

FastWalker2

 

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DaViper

unregistered posted 24 January 2001 03:02

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There is really only one thing I don’t understand the “Theory” of. (Relative to the topic of this board that is.) Or why it is even a Theory at all.

That is of “Parallel Universes” or “Alternative Timelines”. It remains a Paradox for me.

 

Someone correct me where I’m wrong here but as I understand it, these Parallel Universes or Alternative Timelines are “created” by events in our own, (timelines) or even in others.

 

What events? For instance…

 

I prevent Lee Harvey Oswald from assassinating JFK? OK. This one is easy to follow. But…

 

What “authority” or controlling force determines just what “events” qualify for the creation of a new timeline or universe?

 

God? Is this then just another Religious theory?

 

Or perhaps ALL events create new timelines and universes. Like the collision of two snowflakes during a snowstorm. How about the collision of the outer molecules of the snowflake with the molecules of the atmosphere? Each collision as it falls? Each snowflake? Each storm? Each molecule? WOW!

 

There must be a lotta Timelines out there and alternative Universes huh. Infinitely so even.

 

If infinite, then why am I possesed with the gift of individual thought, free will and the choice to make my own descisions since nothing I think matters anyway in view of all the possibilities that are all true anyway. Given these infinite timelines.

 

Hmmm.

 

This seems a bit foolish to me but I can’t DIS-prove it. But then in science, dis-proving something, should be easy. Except a negative which is a folly in logic.

 

It would seem to me that “infinite” universes and timelines is totally contrary to the principle of Occam’s razor. But then Occam’s razor is not an axiom, merely a postulate. Although it has worked really well so far.

 

Actually, in science, “Multiverse” theory is something that has NEVER been proven. For lack of evidence. It crops up from time to time as a way to explain certain SEEMING paradoxes like the EPR double slit experiment with polarized light. But then, just because it can be used to explain something doesn’t mean it is so.

 

Tiny invisible rubber bands could explain gravity if it weren’t for the fact that it simply isn’t true.

 

Multiverse Theory is not automatically true because it “explains” some things. Lot’s of things explain “some” things. Most of them are NOT true.

 

So help me here. Where did multiverse come from as a theory? Where is the observable evidence of it’s existence and the experiments to back it up that can be duplicated with certainty and repitition?

 

Like the speed of light for example. Or Time Dilation which is so easy to demonstrate now it’s considered commonplace. (It occurs on every single filght of the Space Shuttle.) At least science is TRYING to prove “Frame Dragging” which IS an experiment under way.

 

But “Multiverse”? Who can demonstrate this with integrity?

 

Thank you.

 

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DaViper

unregistered posted 24 January 2001 03:03

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There is really only one thing I don’t understand the “Theory” of. (Relative to the topic of this board that is.) Or why it is even a Theory at all.

That is of “Parallel Universes” or “Alternative Timelines”. It remains a Paradox for me.

 

Someone correct me where I’m wrong here but as I understand it, these Parallel Universes or Alternative Timelines are “created” by events in our own, (timelines) or even in others.

 

What events? For instance…

 

I prevent Lee Harvey Oswald from assassinating JFK? OK. This one is easy to follow. But…

 

What “authority” or controlling force determines just what “events” qualify for the creation of a new timeline or universe?

 

God? Is this then just another Religious theory?

 

Or perhaps ALL events create new timelines and universes. Like the collision of two snowflakes during a snowstorm. How about the collision of the outer molecules of the snowflake with the molecules of the atmosphere? Each collision as it falls? Each snowflake? Each storm? Each molecule? WOW!

 

There must be a lotta Timelines out there and alternative Universes huh. Infinitely so even.

 

If infinite, then why am I possesed with the gift of individual thought, free will and the choice to make my own descisions since nothing I think matters anyway in view of all the possibilities that are all true anyway. Given these infinite timelines.

 

Hmmm.

 

This seems a bit foolish to me but I can’t DIS-prove it. But then in science, dis-proving something, should be easy. Except a negative which is a folly in logic.

 

It would seem to me that “infinite” universes and timelines is totally contrary to the principle of Occam’s razor. But then Occam’s razor is not an axiom, merely a postulate. Although it has worked really well so far.

 

Actually, in science, “Multiverse” theory is something that has NEVER been proven. For lack of evidence. It crops up from time to time as a way to explain certain SEEMING paradoxes like the EPR double slit experiment with polarized light. But then, just because it can be used to explain something doesn’t mean it is so.

 

Tiny invisible rubber bands could explain gravity if it weren’t for the fact that it simply isn’t true.

 

Multiverse Theory is not automatically true because it “explains” some things. Lot’s of things explain “some” things. Most of them are NOT true.

 

So help me here. Where did multiverse come from as a theory? Where is the observable evidence of it’s existence and the experiments to back it up that can be duplicated with certainty and repitition?

 

Like the speed of light for example. Or Time Dilation which is so easy to demonstrate now it’s considered commonplace. (It occurs on every single filght of the Space Shuttle.) At least science is TRYING to prove “Frame Dragging” which IS an experiment under way.

 

But “Multiverse”? Who can demonstrate this with integrity?

 

Thank you.

 

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[email protected]

unregistered posted 24 January 2001 10:00

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Dear Everyone,

I was thinking yesterday and came up with an addition to a conscept I stumbled into last week while thinking.

 

I was reading a book on astronomy that states that the universe is expanding. Now as the unverse expands the temperature of the universe decreases. The author that wrote the book stated that scientist now believe that micro seconds after the big bang there was one super force composed of strong force, weak force, and electromagnetic force. Gravity was seperate from these forces at that time as it is today…so they say. As the universe expanded and cooled this super force broke up into three seperate forces; strong, weak, and electromagnetic. This is what I propose. I believe that space is confined to a fixed shpere of a fixed size and more space is added so that the pressure of the space begins to build up and the density of space begins to increase. One would normally think that compressing space would result in an increase in the temperature of space as a result of the compression of energy that is confined to that region of space. However I believe the opposite is true. To compress space by increasing the volume of space is to confine the energy within that region of compressed space to a greater volume of space. This results in a decrease to the density of energy. If one doubles the volume of space that a quantity of energy occupies, the energy density of that energy will be equall to the inverted square of the density of the new density of space. (S=1/e^2) where s=new density of space, and e=the density of energy occupying that space. Further more, I believe that energy is also expanding at the same rate as space. One might say, if this is so then why does the energy density of space decrease as space expands? If the increase of energy is proportionate to the increase of space, then shouldn’t the space-time temperature remain constant? The answer, quite counterintuitively, is no. The reason is that even if a quantity of space doubles and the energy in that space also doubles, the new energy and space must form around the old energy and space because the new energy and space cannot occupy the same region. This of course does not explain the differential in energy density from space density. The reason that energy density deacreases is because to quanta of energy that are closer to one another gain extra density. This manifested in a magnetic field for as the photons increase there distance as they stray from each other the density of the field and strength of the field decreases. The oldest energy is closer then the new energy. The increase in density decreases the density of space in the old energies region and increases the density of space in the new energies region. This creates the warping of the space-time continuum that is present in a dense grouping of energy. Got to goe

 

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Lara

Junior Member posted 24 January 2001 10:58

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The mulitiverse theory, basicly, is that everything that can happen, does happen. It doesn’t ‘decide’ to split if you change history, or if two snowflakes collide or don’t. The possibilities already exist.

Anyway, who’s to say we have free will or thought? For all we know we could be playing a role, like mindless zombies. Not a pleasant thought, but just as possible as anything else.

 

I guess the big question is why? If there are infinite universes, what would the point be of their existence? If time travel is possible, it would prevent paradoxes. Is that the only reason, like some sort of self preservation mechanism?

 

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borgus

unregistered posted 24 January 2001 12:24

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rgrunt…

why are you so sure that the universe is expanding? the only evidence for a big bang is the doppler effect of the light from the surrounding stars and galaxies. What if this effect is caused, not by expansion, but by the pattern of light slowing down as it enters our galaxy.

 

It makes equal sense that if manipulation of space is possible, then space itself is a force occupied only within a galaxy. The goal would be to create a void within space equal to that outside the galaxy (where there would be no gravity.) This idea is based on a non-gravity universe, where gravity only exists within galaxies.

 

Therefore galaxies do not attract each other, and do not risk being hurled into a big bang. Instead they are freely floating in a nuetral environment where light can travel much faster between them.

 

Light then slows down as it enters the force of a galaxy and creates a pattern we see as the doppler effect.

 

This means that light speed is related only to the amount of galaxy force it is traveling through. If you create a void within the galaxy force, then light could travel faster, and then relative to that of course, would be time travel.

 

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[email protected]

unregistered posted 24 January 2001 15:24

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Borgus,

 

I am not at all convinced that the universe is expanding. I was in such a hurry to post due to time constraints that I was not able to post my views accurately. I appologize for the confusion. I am more convinced that the universed is fixed and not expanding. I believe God when he says that nothing can be added and nothing taken away. But at the same time I am not fully convinced that the universe is entirely a closed system either. I believe that energy can be formed at an area where no energy is present by drawing energy from beyond the center of a measured region. I call the area beyond the centermass of every particle and field subpoint space because it is an area that exists beyond the centermass. This is my theory and it is not even a theory yet. It is truelly a hypothesis. In a littly while I may be able to produce evidence to support or deny my hypothesis. As soon as I have confirmed the viability of my claims or lack there of, I might post the results. The conscept I was trying to describe above is more related the how energy and space interact. The theory you proposed also sounds like a viable alternative to the current model. I believe that there are limits to every field and that at some distance from a given grouping of mass there is zero gravity. For example, if you quantize space and allow for a device pump space into a given container such as cup that has an internal temperature of 91degrees farhenheit, then the temperature in that cup will decrease more as the numerical quantity of thermal photons occupy a greater volume of space. Basically as an electromagnetic field occupies a greater volume of space the density and strength of that field decreases. Now if one were to vacuum out the space from the cup that is 91 degrees farhenheit, then the temperature within that cup will increase significantly as the numerical quantity of the thermal photons within that space occupy a lesser volume of space. Basically, as an electromagnetic field(or any other photon mediated field) contracts to occupy a lesser volume of space, the strength and density of that field will increase. This goes right along with your own theory about areas outside the galaxies. For an area with zero densityand infinity energy density the velocity the vacuum velocity of light will increase without bounds. If one decreases the energy density within a given region to zero then the space-time density within that region will increase to infinity and the light speed velocity in that region will decrease to zero absolute velocity.

regards,

 

Edwin G. Schasteen

 

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This topic is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

 

——————–

Got light? Make matter.

 

[email protected]

 

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Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged

 

Pamela

Moderator

Member # 15

 

posted December 28, 2002 06:32

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Time-travel Paradoxes! (Page 11)

 

 

Author Topic: Time-travel Paradoxes!

[email protected]

unregistered posted 24 January 2001 15:25

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Borgus,

 

I am not at all convinced that the universe is expanding. I was in such a hurry to post due to time constraints that I was not able to post my views accurately. I appologize for the confusion. I am more convinced that the universed is fixed and not expanding. I believe God when he says that nothing can be added and nothing taken away. But at the same time I am not fully convinced that the universe is entirely a closed system either. I believe that energy can be formed at an area where no energy is present by drawing energy from beyond the center of a measured region. I call the area beyond the centermass of every particle and field subpoint space because it is an area that exists beyond the centermass. This is my theory and it is not even a theory yet. It is truelly a hypothesis. In a littly while I may be able to produce evidence to support or deny my hypothesis. As soon as I have confirmed the viability of my claims or lack there of, I might post the results. The conscept I was trying to describe above is more related the how energy and space interact. The theory you proposed also sounds like a viable alternative to the current model. I believe that there are limits to every field and that at some distance from a given grouping of mass there is zero gravity. For example, if you quantize space and allow for a device pump space into a given container such as cup that has an internal temperature of 91degrees farhenheit, then the temperature in that cup will decrease more as the numerical quantity of thermal photons occupy a greater volume of space. Basically as an electromagnetic field occupies a greater volume of space the density and strength of that field decreases. Now if one were to vacuum out the space from the cup that is 91 degrees farhenheit, then the temperature within that cup will increase significantly as the numerical quantity of the thermal photons within that space occupy a lesser volume of space. Basically, as an electromagnetic field(or any other photon mediated field) contracts to occupy a lesser volume of space, the strength and density of that field will increase. This goes right along with your own theory about areas outside the galaxies. For an area with zero densityand infinity energy density the velocity the vacuum velocity of light will increase without bounds. If one decreases the energy density within a given region to zero then the space-time density within that region will increase to infinity and the light speed velocity in that region will decrease to zero absolute velocity.

regards,

 

Edwin G. Schasteen

 

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rgrunt

unregistered posted 24 January 2001 15:25

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Borgus,

 

I am not at all convinced that the universe is expanding. I was in such a hurry to post due to time constraints that I was not able to post my views accurately. I appologize for the confusion. I am more convinced that the universed is fixed and not expanding. I believe God when he says that nothing can be added and nothing taken away. But at the same time I am not fully convinced that the universe is entirely a closed system either. I believe that energy can be formed at an area where no energy is present by drawing energy from beyond the center of a measured region. I call the area beyond the centermass of every particle and field subpoint space because it is an area that exists beyond the centermass. This is my theory and it is not even a theory yet. It is truelly a hypothesis. In a littly while I may be able to produce evidence to support or deny my hypothesis. As soon as I have confirmed the viability of my claims or lack there of, I might post the results. The conscept I was trying to describe above is more related the how energy and space interact. The theory you proposed also sounds like a viable alternative to the current model. I believe that there are limits to every field and that at some distance from a given grouping of mass there is zero gravity. For example, if you quantize space and allow for a device pump space into a given container such as cup that has an internal temperature of 91degrees farhenheit, then the temperature in that cup will decrease more as the numerical quantity of thermal photons occupy a greater volume of space. Basically as an electromagnetic field occupies a greater volume of space the density and strength of that field decreases. Now if one were to vacuum out the space from the cup that is 91 degrees farhenheit, then the temperature within that cup will increase significantly as the numerical quantity of the thermal photons within that space occupy a lesser volume of space. Basically, as an electromagnetic field(or any other photon mediated field) contracts to occupy a lesser volume of space, the strength and density of that field will increase. This goes right along with your own theory about areas outside the galaxies. For an area with zero densityand infinity energy density the velocity the vacuum velocity of light will increase without bounds. If one decreases the energy density within a given region to zero then the space-time density within that region will increase to infinity and the light speed velocity in that region will decrease to zero absolute velocity.

regards,

 

Edwin G. Schasteen

 

IP: Logged

 

rgrunt

unregistered posted 24 January 2001 15:26

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Borgus,

 

I am not at all convinced that the universe is expanding. I was in such a hurry to post due to time constraints that I was not able to post my views accurately. I appologize for the confusion. I am more convinced that the universed is fixed and not expanding. I believe God when he says that nothing can be added and nothing taken away. But at the same time I am not fully convinced that the universe is entirely a closed system either. I believe that energy can be formed at an area where no energy is present by drawing energy from beyond the center of a measured region. I call the area beyond the centermass of every particle and field subpoint space because it is an area that exists beyond the centermass. This is my theory and it is not even a theory yet. It is truelly a hypothesis. In a littly while I may be able to produce evidence to support or deny my hypothesis. As soon as I have confirmed the viability of my claims or lack there of, I might post the results. The conscept I was trying to describe above is more related the how energy and space interact. The theory you proposed also sounds like a viable alternative to the current model. I believe that there are limits to every field and that at some distance from a given grouping of mass there is zero gravity. For example, if you quantize space and allow for a device pump space into a given container such as cup that has an internal temperature of 91degrees farhenheit, then the temperature in that cup will decrease more as the numerical quantity of thermal photons occupy a greater volume of space. Basically as an electromagnetic field occupies a greater volume of space the density and strength of that field decreases. Now if one were to vacuum out the space from the cup that is 91 degrees farhenheit, then the temperature within that cup will increase significantly as the numerical quantity of the thermal photons within that space occupy a lesser volume of space. Basically, as an electromagnetic field(or any other photon mediated field) contracts to occupy a lesser volume of space, the strength and density of that field will increase. This goes right along with your own theory about areas outside the galaxies. For an area with zero densityand infinity energy density the velocity the vacuum velocity of light will increase without bounds. If one decreases the energy density within a given region to zero then the space-time density within that region will increase to infinity and the light speed velocity in that region will decrease to zero absolute velocity.

regards,

 

Edwin G. Schasteen

 

IP: Logged

 

observer1

unregistered posted 25 January 2001 01:17

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You forgot to space your sentences.

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DaViper

unregistered posted 25 January 2001 04:00

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rgrunt:

You had me going in your first post. I thought it was well thought out. Well reasoned, and stimulating. Whether it is correct or not I cannot say. Maybe, maybe not.

 

But then you lost me again in your subsequent post(s) by bringing what you say you believe “God Says” into it.

 

Not sure just where “God Says” this. It ain’t in the Bible anyway.

 

Besides, in contemplating the very existence of God one is left to ask “Who Created God”? Then if the answer is “God always was”, it begs the further question, “If God COULD always have been, why not the Universe itself without the need for a God to ‘create’ it”?

 

Not that I’m Atheistic, merely Agnostic. If God exists, so be it. If not, so be it. Only one thing is for sure…Whether one BELIEVES in a God or not, has no effect whatsoever on whether there truly is or is NOT one.

 

Besides, I’ve never been one to let others make descisions for me. I can do that quite well by myself thank you. I won’t dismiss God, but I’m really not sure why I need him.

 

Borgus:

 

Yes, I’ve heard views similar to yours before, and no offense intended, but they don’t answer my question. For instance, if we extrapolate just a tad further, I could ask that if infinite universes exist, and I have no free will control over my own fate in any of them, why not just commit suicide. I’ll go on in another universe, since “all things are so”. I could just keep commiting suicide until I finally arrive at a life timeline where I consider EVERYTHING to be SO perfect that I stick around for a while.

 

But then, this line of reasoning is really pretty silly isn’t it.

 

Naw, Multiverse is a nice cute theory that, like I said, crops up over time to explain certain paradoxes, but it has never been resolved to be provable by any evidence. Besides, as such, I see it as a cop out for side stepping the issue of Time Travel.

 

If Time Travel is to be solved, we have to begin to think beyond the old easy trains of thought and try to grasp that which we do not yet even understand the concept of.

 

We need to re-examine our old concept of what we refer to as “Time” itself.

 

We’ve exhausted the old theories. They don’t work. There are no Time Machines. And PROBABLY no “parallel” Universes. Other Universes perhaps, but not Parallel Ones we have “counterparts” existing in. Can’t buy it.

 

New thought is what is called for.

 

I may not be capable of it, but those who are need to focus ahead into new territory. Not hack away at the old.

 

Peace.

 

IP: Logged

 

DaViper

unregistered posted 25 January 2001 04:00

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rgrunt:

You had me going in your first post. I thought it was well thought out. Well reasoned, and stimulating. Whether it is correct or not I cannot say. Maybe, maybe not.

 

But then you lost me again in your subsequent post(s) by bringing what you say you believe “God Says” into it.

 

Not sure just where “God Says” this. It ain’t in the Bible anyway.

 

Besides, in contemplating the very existence of God one is left to ask “Who Created God”? Then if the answer is “God always was”, it begs the further question, “If God COULD always have been, why not the Universe itself without the need for a God to ‘create’ it”?

 

Not that I’m Atheistic, merely Agnostic. If God exists, so be it. If not, so be it. Only one thing is for sure…Whether one BELIEVES in a God or not, has no effect whatsoever on whether there truly is or is NOT one.

 

Besides, I’ve never been one to let others make descisions for me. I can do that quite well by myself thank you. I won’t dismiss God, but I’m really not sure why I need him.

 

Borgus:

 

Yes, I’ve heard views similar to yours before, and no offense intended, but they don’t answer my question. For instance, if we extrapolate just a tad further, I could ask that if infinite universes exist, and I have no free will control over my own fate in any of them, why not just commit suicide. I’ll go on in another universe, since “all things are so”. I could just keep commiting suicide until I finally arrive at a life timeline where I consider EVERYTHING to be SO perfect that I stick around for a while.

 

But then, this line of reasoning is really pretty silly isn’t it.

 

Naw, Multiverse is a nice cute theory that, like I said, crops up over time to explain certain paradoxes, but it has never been resolved to be provable by any evidence. Besides, as such, I see it as a cop out for side stepping the issue of Time Travel.

 

If Time Travel is to be solved, we have to begin to think beyond the old easy trains of thought and try to grasp that which we do not yet even understand the concept of.

 

We need to re-examine our old concept of what we refer to as “Time” itself.

 

We’ve exhausted the old theories. They don’t work. There are no Time Machines. And PROBABLY no “parallel” Universes. Other Universes perhaps, but not Parallel Ones we have “counterparts” existing in. Can’t buy it.

 

New thought is what is called for.

 

I may not be capable of it, but those who are need to focus ahead into new territory. Not hack away at the old.

 

Peace.

 

IP: Logged

 

DaViper

unregistered posted 25 January 2001 04:06

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Hey Moderator.

I DID NOT post that last post twice. I did get a 505 Internal Server error on the first one tho.

 

I got one last night also, but it did not result in two identical postings.

 

(Just FYI)

 

IP: Logged

 

[email protected]

unregistered posted 25 January 2001 09:52

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Deviper: I believe that I read that quote from revelation, but I respect your beliefs and yor right to have them. I am not here to convince anyone that God exists. I am only here to speak the truth as I know it.

 

I am just a vessel and god hardens whom he wants to harden and softens the hearts of whom he wants to soften. As for the qoute, it was stating that what ever God has done, said, or created can not be added to or taken away from.

 

A similar conspeptual logic exists in science as well, the law of conservation of energy,mass,and momentum. Even in the case where energy is borrowed from the vacuum of space there is no vialation of this in that the source of energy was gained from an existant source…space. If energy is gained from nothing; then this law is vialated.

 

Edwin G. Schasteen

 

Everyone:

 

I appologize for not double spacing, I was in a hurry. I also got that screen and that is why I have three of the same posts. Hmmm.

 

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borgus

unregistered posted 25 January 2001 12:29

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Well, I don’t have much confidence in the parallel timelines (multiuniverse existance) theory of time. It makes much better sense to consider time a property of motion in the 4th dimension (axis).

But if time is indeed a 4th dimension then it is always difficult to convert that into a visual model that our brains can understand.

 

What if time is a property of gravity… where you fall through time at a constant rate relative to the gravity. Problem with this is that time would pass at different rates on different planets (which hasn’t been proven either way).

 

If you imagine yourself, and everything else on Earth, falling through time. Then Newton’s laws of motion would apply to time. If an object is falling through time it will continue falling until a force stops it. The force required to stop it (or accelerate it) is proportional to the velocity and mass. And there must be an equal and opposite reaction to motion through time.

 

Using this (fictional) model how would you stop someone from falling through time, or accelerate them away from it (back in time)?

 

You would need to understand the properties of the time-force, whether it is related to gravity fields, whether it is related directly to mass, or space.

 

Also this would delete the notion of parallel timelines. If one object were to be pushed into an acceleration away from the time force, then they would no longer exist in their previous position in relation to everything else that is falling. Once they are placed in a location behind the previous, and began to fall again at a constant rate. Would they, or not, be in the past? Would familiar objects be seen around? ..existing in a previous time? Becuase you have to visualize it as another plane of existance. so the other dimensions would be connected to it.

 

Like i said, its very hard to visualize the 4 dimensional properties. But perhaps the “falling” model will help.

 

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Time02112

Member posted 25 January 2001 17:31

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DA Viper,

as you said earlier…”Actually, in science, “Multiverse” theory is something that has NEVER been proven. For lack of evidence. It crops up from time to time as a way to explain certain SEEMING paradoxes like the EPR double slit experiment with polarized light. But then, just because it can be used to explain something doesn’t mean it is so.

Tiny invisible rubber bands could explain gravity if it weren’t for the fact that it simply isn’t true.

 

Multiverse Theory is not automatically true because it “explains” some things. Lot’s of things explain “some” things. Most of them are NOT true.

 

So help me here. Where did multiverse come from as a theory? Where is the observable evidence of it’s existence and the experiments to back it up that can be duplicated with certainty and repitition?

 

Like the speed of light for example. Or Time Dilation which is so easy to demonstrate now it’s considered commonplace. (It occurs on every single filght of the Space Shuttle.) At least science is TRYING to prove “Frame Dragging” which IS an experiment under way.

 

But “Multiverse”? Who can demonstrate this with integrity?”

_____________________________________________

———————————————

Perhaps the following might lend some additional clues, as to “shed some light on the subject.”

 

When engaging upon a string quartet of talented musicians, there are only two types of designations,

 

*Those who participate.

*Those who observe.

 

_____________________________________________

———————————————

NOTE:> The following posts were extracted from “Autodynamics” *Egroups Forum.

< http://www.egroups.com/group/autodynamics>

 

Scientists Bring Light to Full Stop, Hold It, Then Send It on Its Way

 

In today’s New York Times, http://www.nytimes.com

(You have to register at the site to read the article).

 

From: Bill Slawson

Date: Sun Jan 21, 2001 12:02pm

Subject: AutoDynamics ?

 

Douglas Scott 01/21/01

[email protected]

 

From: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001230.html

 

During the last coupla years, I have been looking at SAA, AutoDynamics in general, and the formulations of Ricardo Carezani. Sometime in 1999, I began thinking about the possible degradation of photonic energy by the theoretical picograviton. The “tired photon” hypotheses, to explain the smooth redshift variation with respect to distance/time, have a number of (surmountable) problems. But, the generally accepted solution for this smooth variation, (namely: BigBang), also has many problems.

 

If you would, could you supply me with your short list, in links or references, describing why you may or may not support this tired photon thinking?

 

Anisotropy of CMB:

In the image of the above link, I can see that there is a calico feature to the CMB. The dark patches are limited by the resolution of the scale. I wonder how far off the scale are the depths of the dark patches? Is there data available to recalibrate the image to a different, (lower), central “zero value”? Further, if one were to gather multiple images of the same patch of sky, would the calico pattern remain strictly identical? Over what period of time? The careful comparison of differing images could reveal the changes as being instrumental artifacts or actual sky change.

 

I wildly wonder if there may be a nominal “rest state” for photonic radiation? If, after a looong journey through “space”, the photonic energies are “wound down” by being bent hither and thither through the gravitational wedges of the intergalactic medium – – then, is the result that the background has a rather even “look” to it? Is this “even” appearance some kind of undulating dispersion of photonic energies around and about the nominal “rest state” average value? Or can the true “rest state” be an equilibrium point whereby photonic energies are hardly affected and mostly unaffected by the “picograviton density fluctuations”?

 

Everything is natural

 

Bill Slawson

1621 Grand

Spencer, IA

51301-3433

712-262-1111

[email protected]

 

(C) Copyright 2000 usual rights, usual rates

 

Slight reference:

AutoDynamics: http://www.flic.net/~saa/

 

The boundary of the “observable” universe may be only limited by the distance it takes for “most” photonic radiation to wind down to the equilibrium rest state of the microwave background radiation energy. If we can develop “graviton” apertures and detection instruments, the “observable” horizon could be extended way far.

 

– – p n Jones

 

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Trott

Member posted 25 January 2001 23:02

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What happened to page 11? I can not see it. Perhaps posting, will allow me to.

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Shadow

unregistered posted 26 January 2001 12:54

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What happened to Pamala and TT_O? They both dropped off the board at the same time.

PC crash, hanky panky?

 

IP: Logged

 

Shadow

unregistered posted 26 January 2001 12:55

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What happened to Pamala and TT_O? They both dropped off the board at the same time.

PC crash, hanky panky?

 

IP: Logged

 

TimeTravel_0

unregistered posted 26 January 2001 13:32

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Greetings everyone. I’ve been a way for a while so I apologize for not getting back to these questions sooner.

((First, where does your interest in the (our) U.S. Constitution stem from? Why do you think it is so vital for us to read and understand it?))

 

After the war, the United States had split into five separate regions based on the various factors and military objectives they each had. There was a great deal of anger directed toward the Federal government and a revival of states rights was becoming paramount. However, in their attempt to create an economic form of government, the political and military leaders at the time decided to hold one last Constitutional Congress in order to present a psychological cohesion from the old system. During this Congress, the leaders discovered and decided that coming up with a new and better form of government was nearly impossible. The original Constitution itself was not the problem it was the ignorance of the people that lived under it.

 

((Second, do you not like your “new” Constitution? Or feel that it is not as effective as the original?))

 

From my viewpoint, it’s very effective. I am a very strong believer in local or state’s rights.

 

((Third, you keep saying that you will be going back to your worldline soon, how soon will this be?))

 

There are certain windows I must wait for in order to leave. There will be two this year. The first one opens this spring.

 

((Is it physically possible for you to get back to THIS time line once you leave?))

 

Not with the unit I have.

 

((If all 7 Billion of us here each had our own time machine do you think that would we would end up trashing the rest of the local worldlines?))

 

Since everything is already happening and possible on different worldlines, the answer is yes….and no.

 

((Correct me if I’m wrong here but I see you as a Libertarian who expounds on the need for humanity to get back to certain basics. Like the issues defined by the Constitution and your comments earlier on firearms tend to make me believe you are a Gun Rights activist.))

 

I suppose from your vantage point that’s a fair assessment. I would call myself more of a centrist. Although I understand the “gun rights” issue here, I cannot relate to it all and it is a common point of argument with my mother. I keep saying her tune will change in about ten years and she’ll be cleaning shotguns in her sleep but it doesn’t help. If it makes you feel any better, I never shot anyone who wasn’t trying to kill me.

 

((could you give us your thoughts on how us “less enlightened” ones here in this worldline of the here/now can solve the technical problems of time travel so that we may be able to enjoy the same first hand knowledge you have that gives you these social insights?))

 

When you say “us”, what do you mean? Do you mean “you”? Where would you go if you had my machine? How do you think the rest of the world would react to the U.S. having a time machine and they didn’t? To tell you the truth, I more worried about the computer system than I am the distrotion unit.

 

((You said that you traveled back in time from 2036 to 1975 with a ~1-2% divergence. You also mentioned that in your time frame a 0% divergence is sort of a myth, i.e technologically improbable.))

 

Yes, a “ZD” is thought to be impossible. However, consider that an exact entry point “may” not be necessary to get home. The important factor is the path, not the destination. Under multiple world theory, there are an infinite number of “homes” that I could return to that don’t have me there. The divergence for that window is somewhere near .002377%.

 

((Someone correct me where I’m wrong here but as I understand it, these Parallel Universes or Alternative Timelines are “created” by events in our own, (timelines) or even in others.))

 

Parallel universes exist independently of each other and only interact to avoid the collapse of the wave function for any given particle that you are looking at. I like to imagine it as a series of parallel lines crossed by a sine wave. Each point on the sine wave where a line crosses it represents an alternate outcome. The multiple “yous” on each worldline record a different result for the activity of the event.

 

((Actually, in science, “Multiverse” theory is something that has NEVER been proven. For lack of evidence. It crops up from time to time as a way to explain certain SEEMING paradoxes like the EPR double slit experiment with polarized light. But then, just because it can be used to explain something doesn’t mean it is so.))

 

I agree with you that an explanation doesn’t make it so. However you can build a model to describe physical behavior. Even if the model is not complete, its “truth” can be measured by how well it predicts the behavior it describes.

 

((So help me here. Where did multiverse come from as a theory? Where is the observable evidence of it’s existence and the experiments to back it up that can be duplicated with certainty and repitition?))

 

I believe the closest non-related evidence for multiple universes right now comes from the physics (derived from special relativity) of rotating (Kerr) black holes. If you examine a typical Penrose map, science agrees that you can travel to “other universes” through these cosmic oddities. They can’t be different places in our own universe because you would have to violate the speed of light limit to get there.

 

Since the existence of multiple universes is a reality from my viewpoint, please allow me to disclose an idea we toss around a bit in 2036. Since all possibilities, outcomes and events are occurring and exist simultaneously, it would mean there are multiple universes out there where “you” are living a day behind and a day ahead of the “you” on this universe.

 

There are some who believe that memory is some sort of information transfer or communication with the “yous” in the past, across worldlines or universes. Although this is seemingly quite ridiculous, if you think that could be true, than physics tells us that the same information transfer from our future selves on other worldlines is not only possible but certain. Could it be that fantasy or “what if” scenarios are actually future memory from an alternate “us” on a future worldline?

 

According to physics, there is no reason why this cannot be true although I probably fall a little closer to DiViper’s feelings about this as he does on multiple universes.

 

IP: Logged

 

TimeTravel_0

unregistered posted 26 January 2001 14:06

——————————————————————————–

Greetings everyone. I’ve been a way for a while so I apologize for not getting back to these questions sooner. I’ve noticed this topic seems to be less than responsive when you try to post to it.

((First, where does your interest in the (our) U.S. Constitution stem from? Why do you think it is so vital for us to read and understand it?))

 

After the war, the United States had split into five separate regions based on the various factors and military objectives they each had. There was a great deal of anger directed toward the Federal government and a revival of states rights was becoming paramount. However, in their attempt to create an economic form of government, the political and military leaders at the time decided to hold one last Constitutional Congress in order to present a psychological cohesion from the old system. During this Congress, the leaders discovered and decided that coming up with a new and better form of government was nearly impossible. The original Constitution itself was not the problem it was the ignorance of the people that lived under it.

 

((Second, do you not like your “new” Constitution? Or feel that it is not as effective as the original?))

 

From my viewpoint, it’s very effective. I am a very strong believer in local or state’s rights.

 

((Third, you keep saying that you will be going back to your worldline soon, how soon will this be?))

 

There are certain windows I must wait for in order to leave. There will be two this year. The first one opens this spring.

 

((Is it physically possible for you to get back to THIS time line once you leave?))

 

Not with the machine I have now.

 

((If all 7 Billion of us here each had our own time machine do you think that would we would end up trashing the rest of the local worldlines?))

 

Since everything is already happening and possible on different worldlines, the answer is yes….and no.

 

((Correct me if I’m wrong here but I see you as a Libertarian who expounds on the need for humanity to get back to certain basics. Like the issues defined by the Constitution and your comments earlier on firearms tend to make me believe you are a Gun Rights activist.))

 

I suppose from your vantage point that’s a fair assessment. I would call myself more of a centrist. Although I understand the “gun rights” issue here, I cannot relate to it all and it is a common point of argument with my mother. I keep saying her tune will change in about ten years and she’ll be cleaning shotguns in her sleep but it doesn’t help. If it makes you feel any better, I never shot anyone who wasn’t trying to kill me.

 

((could you give us your thoughts on how us “less enlightened” ones here in this worldline of the here/now can solve the technical problems of time travel so that we may be able to enjoy the same first hand knowledge you have that gives you these social insights?))

 

When you say “us”, what do you mean? Do you mean “you”? Where would you go if you had my machine? How do you think the rest of the world would react to the U.S. having a time machine and they didn’t?

 

((You said that you traveled back in time from 2036 to 1975 with a ~1-2% divergence. You also mentioned that in your time frame a 0% divergence is sort of a myth, i.e technologically improbable.))

 

Yes, a “ZD” is thought to be impossible. However, consider that an exact entry point “may” not be necessary to get home. The important factor is the path, not the destination. Under multiple world theory, there are an infinite number of “homes” that I could return to that don’t have me there. The divergence for that window is somewhere near .0002377%.

 

((Someone correct me where I’m wrong here but as I understand it, these Parallel Universes or Alternative Timelines are “created” by events in our own, (timelines) or even in others.))

 

Parallel universes exist independently of each other and only interact to avoid the collapse of the wave function for any given particle that you are looking at. I like to imagine it as a series of parallel lines crossed by a sine wave. Each point on the sine wave where a line crosses it represents an alternate outcome. The multiple “yous” on each worldline record a different result for the activity of the particle or event.

 

((Actually, in science, “Multiverse” theory is something that has NEVER been proven. For lack of evidence. It crops up from time to time as a way to explain certain SEEMING paradoxes like the EPR double slit experiment with polarized light. But then, just because it can be used to explain something doesn’t mean it is so.))

 

I agree with you that an explanation doesn’t make it so. However you can build a model to describe physical behavior. Even if the model is not complete, its “truth” can be measured by how well it predicts the behavior it describes.

 

((So help me here. Where did multiverse come from as a theory? Where is the observable evidence of it’s existence and the experiments to back it up that can be duplicated with certainty and repitition?))

 

I believe the closest non-related evidence for multiple universes right now comes from the physics (derived from special relativity) of rotating (Kerr) black holes. If you examine a typical Penrose map, science agrees that you can travel to “other universes” through these cosmic oddities. They can’t be different places in our own universe because you would have to violate the speed of light limit to get there.

 

Since the existence of multiple universes is a reality from my viewpoint, please allow me to disclose an idea we toss around a bit in 2036. Since all possibilities, outcomes and events are occurring and exist simultaneously, it would mean there are multiple universes out there where “you” are living a day behind and a day ahead of the “you” on this universe.

 

There are some who believe that memory is some sort of information transfer or communication with the “yous” in the past, across worldlines or universes. Although this is seemingly quite ridiculous, if you think that could be true, than physics tells us that the same information transfer from our future selves on other worldlines is not only possible but certain.

 

Could it be that fantasy or “what if” scenarios are actually future memory from an alternate “us” on a future worldline?

According to physics, there is no reason why this cannot be true although I probably fall a little closer to DiViper’s feelings about this as he does on multiple universes.

 

IP: Logged

 

pamela

Member posted 26 January 2001 19:24

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Testing>>>>>>>>>>>>

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DaViper

unregistered posted 27 January 2001 18:08

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rgrunt:

By all means please understand that I likewise respect YOUR views. Whether i agree with all of them or not. I was just rambling on about my musings on religion and would not intend to offend anyone.

 

I like your “conservation” law analogy.

 

Peace.

 

Borgus:

 

Yup. I’d say we’re pretty close here. The “Frame Dragging” experiment being readied by NASA goes directly to this “gravity relativity to time” issues. Particularly as it pertains to a spinning body, in this case the Earth itself.

 

From what I understand so far on this, the gravitational effect on time would have the opposite (or possibly counteracting) effect of Time Dilation. For instance, the Space Shuttle’s clocks run slower, but the Shuttle’s position of being less influenced by gravity than an Earth bound object SHOULD make the shuttle’s clocks run FASTER! Somehow, the Time Dilation effect is “winning” it’s battle with gravity’s (or the diminished amount of it) counteractive effect.

 

I don’t fully understand it yet, but then I’m not sure anyone FULLY understands it. Otherwise it could be explaind precisely and predictably. So far, it can’t.

 

I’m eager to see what develops.

 

Time02112:

 

Yes I’m familiar with the sites and the work in that area and certainly do not claim to be an expert in any of this. But…

 

I’m not sure what your references have to do with “multiverse” theory. Could we be comparing apples and oranges here?

 

Thanx for the informative tips toward them tho.

 

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DaViper

unregistered posted 27 January 2001 18:18

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rgrunt:

By all means please understand that I likewise respect YOUR views. Whether i agree with all of them or not. I was just rambling on about my musings on religion and would not intend to offend anyone.

 

I like your “conservation” law analogy.

 

Peace.

 

Borgus:

 

Yup. I’d say we’re pretty close here. The “Frame Dragging” experiment being readied by NASA goes directly to this “gravity relativity to time” issues. Particularly as it pertains to a spinning body, in this case the Earth itself.

 

From what I understand so far on this, the gravitational effect on time would have the opposite (or possibly counteracting) effect of Time Dilation. For instance, the Space Shuttle’s clocks run slower, but the Shuttle’s position of being less influenced by gravity than an Earth bound object SHOULD make the shuttle’s clocks run FASTER! Somehow, the Time Dilation effect is “winning” it’s battle with gravity’s (or the diminished amount of it) counteractive effect.

 

I don’t fully understand it yet, but then I’m not sure anyone FULLY understands it. Otherwise it could be explaind precisely and predictably. So far, it can’t.

 

I’m eager to see what develops.

 

Time02112:

 

Yes I’m familiar with the sites and the work in that area and certainly do not claim to be an expert in any of this. But…

 

I’m not sure what your references have to do with “multiverse” theory. Could we be comparing apples and oranges here?

 

Thanx for the informative tips toward them tho.

 

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DaViper

unregistered posted 28 January 2001 15:58

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Hmmm.

Maybe we ought to get a “Paradoxes Continued…” thread going.

 

It looks like the message board software is starting to honk up over the length of this one.

 

The last post I made never showed up tho the board said it WAS posted. The one before that posted twice tho I didn’t do that.

 

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pamela

Member posted 10 February 2001 07:01

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testing

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pamela

Member posted 10 February 2001 07:02

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testing

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pamela

Member posted 20 February 2001 09:12

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.

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DethWind

unregistered posted 20 February 2001 22:42

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Argh i missed time traveler! I just wanted to ask him if he knew anyone in the future who was important who had the initials J.W….and if so perhaps he could name them…

heh, i made a riddle once…what clock is a clock that tells time only twice a day?

 

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This topic is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

All times are ET (US)

 

——————–

Got light? Make matter.

 

[email protected]

 

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Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged

 

Pamela

Moderator

Member # 15

 

posted December 28, 2002 06:46

——————————————————————————–

People for some reason were not able to post on the thread above any longer so when John came back from his “trip” he began a new thread.

 

Nothing has been deleted from the threads they are in their original state when I saved them.

(excluding second half of page 9-we may have to delete something from there if Olav cant fix it. If anything is deleted I will tell you exactly what the problem was and why it was deleted and what was deleted.)

 

The continued thread “topics limited to 11 pages?”is still on the TTI board so I will not post it here. If for any reason it becomes permanetly unavailable it will be posted on this thread. The thread over there is locked so nothing can be added or deleted from it.

 

It can be found here:

 

This thread(topics limited to 11 pages?” is currently still on TTI by this date of posting: You will have to paste the URL in as it is a long one.

http://www.timetravelinstitute.com/ttiforum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=time_tra

vel&Number=9237&page=&view=&sb=&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

 

For further links to all postings by John Titor

go here:

http://www.anomalies.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000226

 

[ December 28, 2002, 07:02: Message edited by: Pamela ]

 

——————–

Got light? Make matter.

 

[email protected]

 

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Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged

 

Pamela

Moderator

Member # 15

 

posted December 31, 2002 19:40

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This thread is now complete.

 

——————–

Got light? Make matter.

 

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